Atif Z. Qadir 00:03
Welcome to American Building. I'm your host Atif Qadir. Join me as we explore the skylines and strip malls, the crosswalks and rail crossings, the balconies, the buildings and the boroughs shaping the next generation of real estate. Let's build common ground.
Atif Z. Qadir 00:24
Today's guest is Michael Kirchmann, founder and CEO of GDSNY. Born in South Africa, Michael began his career as an architect and later joined Skidmore, Owings & Merrill in New York in 1997 where he served as a design director. After completing the M masters in real estate development program at NYU, he launched GDSNY. In 2007 he taught at Columbia in the Masters of real estate development program and has lectured at Harvard the architectural Association in London, Penn and NYU. GDSNY is a multidisciplinary New York based real estate company, and it's known for design led ground up and renovation developments as well as architecture asset management, and they provide commercial real estate debt. The firm has delivered roughly six and a half billion dollars in assets. Today, we'll focus on the MET tower, a historic Manhattan high rise that GDSNY is repositioning for a new generation of tenants. So thank you so much for being here with us. Michael.
Michael Kirchmann 01:37
You're welcome.
Atif Z. Qadir 01:38
So let's start off from the beginning, as we usually do, so you trained as an architect and then worked in real estate internships to get your feet wet in that arena. So how did that dual background shape your early view of real estate development?
Michael Kirchmann 01:54
So it actually started a lot earlier than that. I actually grew up in South Africa. My father was a real estate developer and my mother was an interior designer. So I kind of grew up in that that environment, going after school to to the job site and helping both my parents and various guises. But for me, architecture was a way to kind of get into the real estate profession with the specific skills that I had, so that was a good vehicle for me to really start that. And whilst I did do some real estate asset management type internships in the 90s, it was actually working with a guy called Howard Ronson, where I got most of my training in development itself. Howard Ronson was one of the one of the most prolific developers in New York City in the 1980s and in the 90s, he went to Europe and started a business at that time. David Childs from SOM would send me over to Paris to work with Howard and see what kind of projects he was doing. And you know, long story short, I ended up working with Howard for 10 years. We did 20 plus ground up and renovated Class A office buildings, and I was very lucky to be able to be alongside him on a daily basis, meeting with lawyers, meeting with banks, more importantly, doing the architecture and the construction as well. So kind of got a great introduction over an extended period of time and over many assets on exactly how it's done.
Atif Z. Qadir 03:27
What were some of your favorite projects that he worked on in Europe?
Michael Kirchmann 03:31
My singular favorite one was a project called port de la defense, which was a ground up office building just outside of Paris, which was ultimately taken by Oracle and became their headquarters in in Paris. But we did some pretty cool projects over there, Defense Plaza, which was a tower in La Defense we did 111 Buckingham Palace Road in London. There were a lot of very interesting projects and great tenants along the way.
Atif Z. Qadir 03:59
You are a person with multi continents, living experience in Africa, Europe and North America. You made that move, like you mentioned, from South Africa, Cape Town to New York to join SOM. What was that transition like for you?
Michael Kirchmann 04:15
What lessons did you learn about the building process from your time at SOM?
Michael Kirchmann 04:15
So what was very interesting? You know, working with Howard Ronson, he was, he was my main client from for very many years, and we went through a process of even though we built 20 buildings, but we probably underwrote 120 buildings. So we went through a very systematic approach of, you know how to break down a building, how to analyze it, how to come up with a floor plan that worked well, how to innovate. What was there in either ground up format or renovation. We learned and kind of taught ourselves and the team over a period of time to go through a very systematic and pragmatic design process where we were designing each of these buildings from the inside out to create these perfect floor plans for prospective future tenants. And we had a great team that we put together as well. We were working with Constantini, MEP engineers, and we were working with great lighting designers and collaborating with contractors. So all these kind of methodologies, very pragmatic and systematic methodologies, we've we've maintained those through our practice as well.
Michael Kirchmann 04:15
I would say in a word, exhilarating. You know, at the time, in coming to New York City, som were going through some changes, and were making some very major changes in the way that they were approaching design. It was a time when, when SOM was really rebranding itself. There was a design partner there called Roger Duffy, who was really mixing things up and getting SOM back to its roots. You know, SOM has an incredible history, especially in sort of mid century modern some of the great buildings, like like Lever House, for example, which is one of my favorite buildings in the world. It was a fantastic time to be an architect. You know, in the late 90s, early 2000s at SOM because there was this real change that was happening at the at that time, and there was a real focus on creating great products and great design. So it was an incredible experience having moved to New York and had the opportunity to work with with Roger Duffy and some of the other designers at SOM at the time.
Atif Z. Qadir 06:40
Amazing. And then you complimented your experience in working as a designer for developer, by then pursuing a master's in real estate. Talk to me about what you learned there and how that led to starting your firm in New York.
Michael Kirchmann 06:59
So this is, this is, this is, there was an interesting turn for me. So coming from an architectural background and participating in a lot of great projects and ground up projects, in particular in Europe, in the Middle East, you know, I had, I had a lot of building experience, but I did not have a lot of finance experience. And, you know, as much as architects, we like to think that, you know, the development process is about architecture. It's actually mostly about finance and about capital, stocks and putting together LPs and putting together, you know, construction finance. So, you know, that was that's a very important component to any developers process. So I needed to go back to NYU to really enhance and sharpen those finance skills that I'd begun to learn over the period of time. And and finance is a completely different language with a different vocabulary. And you know, one can can pick it up over time, but you supercharge that learning process by going back to a school like NYU.
Atif Z. Qadir 08:04
Great, and then you started your firm. Did you go to NYU with that specific idea in mind that I'm starting the firm after?
Michael Kirchmann 08:12
So I think my intention again, growing up with parents who were developers and design, I think my intention was always to be in development. So when I came to New York, I had an opportunity, clearly, with som, and that opportunity then led to another opportunity with me, working with Howard. After 10 years in that position, I kind of woke up one day and decided it was time to to pursue what I really wanted to do, which was which was development, and fortunately, I then by that time, gathered a lot of experience and a fantastic set of relationships with people in the industry. So it was already the intention to start the company into and to go into development itself. So going through NYU was a natural part of that progression in order to round out the skills that I knew, that I that I needed.
Atif Z. Qadir 09:03
And then as you're getting started the firm, you're developing your own perspective on development, what you want to focus on. So what is the mission of GDSNY, and has it changed over time?
Michael Kirchmann 09:15
I think if there's one common thread that really you know ties everything together is that we're always looking to create and enhance exceptional real estate. If you look at any of our properties around the city, whether they are ground up developments, whether they're renovations or even some extent, the work that we do on the lending side, we always try to take whatever asset that may be and create something fantastic. We always look towards companies like Apple who create these beautiful products. You know, Apple has a market share in terms of consumer products. Samsung and others also create similar products. And in many cases, in most cases, those products are actually better in terms of technology. Technology like Samsung, phones and cameras are generally better than apple, but people nevertheless buy Apple, and what we deduce from that is it's because of the design. And you know, people's natural instinct towards great design, even if they don't necessarily have a design eye themselves, that there is a natural inclination towards products and art and this type of thing that intrinsically has great design, and people feel compelled to actually reach out and enjoy that design.
Michael Kirchmann 10:26
So similarly with our projects and the products that we create, we try to foreground design as a real differentiator in terms of creating those products, and then in turn, using the differentiation in the design to appeal to to our tenants, to our buyers, whether we're doing leasing office space or or selling condos. And I think that that has really played out well and successfully. If you look at our tenants, for example, 1245, Broadway, we have tenants. Our anchor tenant, there's a 24 films. This was a great tenant for us, because we felt that we had a real parallel with a 24 films, in that a 24 are not the biggest company in the world, but they make beautiful films that are based on incredible scripts, and it's the focus on the script and the delivery in production that really makes a 24 films special. And for us, it's kind of the same thing. And that's why we were excited about that parallel when, when we signed a 24 is that, you know, we try to make great scripts and we try to deliver, you know, really thoughtful projects. And I think that, you know, like a 24 films and their and their recognition in the film industry, I think people recognize GDS and why, as a a different type of development company that creates exceptional opportunities and products when it comes to buildings and real estate.
Atif Z. Qadir 12:02
So you mentioned a team, and that's necessary in order to build out all the different capacities at your firm. So tell me about the core team that you've built at GDSNY to deliver on that, that mission you described.
Michael Kirchmann 12:18
So during my time working with with Howard Ronson from around about 1997 at the time when he moved to Paris, there was a handful of people around him, myself included, and there were a couple other guys, one of which was a guy by the name of Alan Rudikoff. Alan was a similar age to me. He was helping Howard with all the financing, all the structuring, the deck structuring, et cetera, the construction finance on all the projects. So Alan and I remained in contact for very many years. We continued to do projects together, and then finally we teamed up to form GDS NY so as a key component to this, you know, we we often talk about this very complimentary partnership that we have where he's very much focused on the finance instruction component of the business, and is extremely strong at that, and is well known for that, and then myself as sort of the counter Balance focus on product design, leasing, obviously, design and construction.
Michael Kirchmann 13:22
It's a really powerful combination of people who have different but complementary skills. And then beyond that, we've, you know, over the last 18 years, we've built a great team. Most people have been with us for, you know, 15 years plus, if not the full you know, some people have been with us since the beginning. Think that what sets us apart, in very many ways, is the team is a team of very experienced people, depending on which area of expertise they're in with project management, whether it's an asset management, acquisitions, each and every person on our on our team of 18 has a lot of deep relationships within New York and a lot of experience building and ask managing real estate.
Atif Z. Qadir 14:08
So that team effort was necessary in order to deliver on the project that we're focusing on today, which is the Met Tower. So the Met Tower, it's a mixed use office and residential tower located in the Plaza District in Manhattan, and it was originally designed by sleis Architects. We're going to focus on the office portion. So when you first assess the building, what struck you about its condition, configuration and potential?
Michael Kirchmann 14:40
So a few things. You know, when one comes to a building, it's a whole sequencing of experiences, starting with you come off the street, you go into the lobby, you then go up to the reception desk, where there's a form of interaction there. You then run through to the elevators and up to your space. The first thing that was very. Appeared to us on this particular asset was the lobby hadn't been renovated in probably 25 years, and the lobby was particularly dark. All the materials were black. There was a sort of blue illuminated LED box that was the reception desk using lighting technology that was 25 years old. So it was, the whole lobby was very, very tired and really in need of of a complete gut renovation. The other component was, you know, in today's leasing market, you really do need to have, you need to provide amenities to your office building. And we see office buildings in today's market like five star hotels. We run our projects like five star hotels. Most of our people on our front desk are former Head concierges from the four seasons or the Ritz Carlton. There's a very important component of your first impressions of the property, but also your first impression of the people within the property. Likewise, along the same lines of You get what you pay for, we hired som to redesign the lobby, to create a new restaurant, to create a members only Club, which would be the amenity in the lower level, and to renovate the plaza on 56th Street.
Michael Kirchmann 16:22
Similarly, you know, we think the best interior designers in terms of office space in New York City is Fogarty finger. So we actually hired Fogarty finger as well to design our pre built which they have done on our other two office assets at 28 and seven, at 1245 Broadway, both those projects are 100% leased. So the pre built, we've developed a pre built language for G, D, sny with fogey finger. Over the last, you know, five years, let's say so we hired Fogarty finger. They designed the pre built, which have gone very well. We did two pre built, one for the 16th floor and one for the fifth floor.
Atif Z. Qadir 16:59
Who are the tenets for those?
Michael Kirchmann 17:00
So the 16th floor is available. The fifth floor is leased to Bayview asset management, okay, but I think you know, coming back to the idea of product design, and you know, we see, we see real estate as just a very large product, but nonetheless, it should go through processes as product design, you know, our interiors, our office interiors, are very recognizable. You know, we have this particular style where we use a lot of curved glass from our time, where we build condos, we bring a lot of that specification of condos into our office space as well. So you get that really sort of hospitality, almost residential high end feel. And you know, our firm also has a great attention to detail. So we have several in house architects who are looking, who are on site every day and are really nit picking all the details within the foot out. There's no exposed mechanicals. We don't expose ducks. Everything is done to a very high level, again, almost as if you're in a high end residential condo, you know, in in Chelsea or something, or in Soho. What's been interesting is our pre built the vision that we have for the lobby, the the vision that we have for the amenities. You know, all that is is actually under construction at the moment. But in the meantime, we've, we've been able to leverage the design vision and the improvements in the design to go from a building that was called a net 20% leased when we took over 15 months ago to we're about 84% leased today. And we have two floors left to bring us to 100% so it's it's been a very successful project so far.
Atif Z. Qadir 18:54
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Atif Z. Qadir 19:49
Congratulations, it's a big lift to be able to get there. So in your underwriting, what were the opportunities and the risks that you identified, especially around things like absorption, given the softness of the office market?
Michael Kirchmann 20:12
What's very interesting, as I'm sure you've probably heard from some of your previous guests, is that in certain parts of Manhattan, the office leasing market is probably as strong as it's ever been in history, and no more so than than Park Avenue and the Plaza District. So if you look at One Vanderbilt, 425 Park Avenue and some of the new ground up or newer office buildings, the new high quality Class A office buildings are all fetching north of $200 per square foot, in some cases, some of the upper floors at 425 Park and One Vanderbilt are actually north of $300 per square foot. A few years ago, these kind of numbers would have been unbelievable in this market, or in any market, but the Plaza District today has those target rents, and they're getting those rents, and there's very little availability for new product in the Plaza District. So the opportunity for us was if we can create a product that could somewhat compete with those extremely high end new high bars in office. And we could make the rents much more affordable. We could offer a very attractive product. So for us, for example, it's a brand new lobby, brand new amenities, private club. It's the brand new plaza, brand new pre built to only high quality, and you can get all that for under $90 a foot. If you compare $85-$90 to $220 which is pretty much an average price per square foot rent in the Plaza District, now it's fantastic value for for tenants looking for space in that same area.
Atif Z. Qadir 22:02
That's a very nice opportunity that you're providing for your tenants. So did you consider a residential conversion at all? Because that's a common thing that is often spoken of about office buildings in New York.
Michael Kirchmann 22:16
So Met Tower is actually a condo which is broken up into a commercial condo, which is what we have with the office space. It's about 276,000 square feet, and then above it there are 200 plus residential condominiums. The way that the building is structured in its condo configuration is that the lower portion remains commercial. We did not consider a residential conversion for that reason, on the one hand, but also on the other hand, we saw a great opportunity for a gap in the market to be able to provide very high end, finished office space where there is no real product in the market.
Atif Z. Qadir 22:57
So speaking of tenants, you mentioned earlier, Bay View Asset Management as one of the tenants that signed places. Who are the tenants that you are targeting, and what demand signals are you seeing in the market from those types of tenants?
Michael Kirchmann 23:12
This is a very interesting question, because the market has changed considerably, and many times over the last few years. Obviously, with Covid, there was a complete paradigm shift. You know, that was really a black swan effect, that event that really changed the leasing market immeasurably. As we went through covid, there was a work from home sort of paradigm that lasted a long time. And then call it a year or so ago, some people call it the Jamie diamond effect, where we call people back to the office, mandated that people return. And I think that that mandate had a knock on effect, where, as an employer, once your competitors start to come back to the office and start to collaborate, person to person and in the same room, and you start to see a strength from that collaboration. It forces your competition to come back as well. I mean, I saw this in the investment sales brokerage firms, even early into Covid, where the teams, the brokerage teams that were coming back and working as a team together in conference rooms were leaps ahead of the teams that were trying to work fully remote.
Michael Kirchmann 24:26
So there's some businesses that just you it's not possible to be competitive in that environment. And you know that's continued to really prove itself out. Office environments themselves have changed to for the better, I think, where employers are actually using offices as a tool to bring people back and employees back to the office, providing them lunch, providing them amenities, in this case, a private lounge, a private club. So we're really targeting employers that are in or tenants who are making a lot of effort to create environments for their employees that nurtures the return to office and also, and as such, also nurtures great relationships with their mentors, because you can't really mentor people over Zoom and you know, it's important to be at the office, to be involved real time and deals. So I think employers recognize this strong trend as kind of the new norm. And so, you know, providing cafeterias, lounges, casual meeting areas. This is all a critical part now of where the office leasing market is coming back to then the product side. You know, we are designing our products to be able to meet that market, even in our pre built and built to suits. Building great cafeterias and great meeting areas within tenant space as well has become probably the most critical part of any discussion that we're having with tenants on the nature of their fit out for their company.
Atif Z. Qadir 26:03
So it's that full experience for the employees in order to keep their employers happy, then keep them happy as tenants.
Michael Kirchmann 26:10
Yeah. And what's interesting as well is that, you know, the tenant base is changing in New York City as well. Whether, whereas 5-10, years ago, it was very much finance and legal. Today, there's tremendous growth in AI firms, FinTech, crypto, you know, these are very sophisticated companies that are extremely well capitalized. It's amazing to see how young some of these firms are. People in their 20s. Some of them haven't even left school, and they're raising $100 million you know, with with 80 employees. It's a very exciting time right now in a tenant landlord business, where the whole notion of who your tenant is is evolving almost, you know, on a weekly basis, and attracting those types of tenants has become very exciting because, because it plays again into the design, it plays into the product. And you know, what kind of spaces you can provide that are going to be interesting to these types of new, young companies that have that are really well capitalized, and are, you know, making great, great money and going places.
Atif Z. Qadir 27:19
Walk us through the experience for your tenants as they approach the building, go through the lobby, go upstairs. You highlighted a lot of the areas that you focused your attention on in terms of the experience. So what is it like? Give us like a visual of what that is.
Michael Kirchmann 27:37
So I stayed in the Ace Hotel in Kyoto in June of last year, and there was a very inspiring experience. The lobby had an incredible vibe. The Tactile materiality of the lobby was great. There were people working, there were people discussing things. There was some there was a lot of food and beverage. It was a very relaxed and warm and welcoming environment. And in looking at Met Tower in just how stark the existing lobby was, we wanted to do something that was completely the opposite, and create this very similar sort of Ace Hotel type experience, where you feel that same specialness of being in the building. So we wanted to replace the sort of black shiny tile with the blue LED illuminated box with natural materials, warm color, lots of plants. We're adding in two new restaurants. Obviously we have the members lounge, so the whole experience at Met Tower is geared towards really feeling like a boutique hotel. When the lobby is finished. In a few months time, you're going to be able to walk in, you're going to feel that stark difference between what was there before and what is there now, which will be silver travertine marble, a lot of mill work and sort of warm, warm oaks, great quality furniture. That's another important component to this is, you know, you can't be cheap on furniture. You have to actually, people notice that kind of thing. People notice hardware. People notice flooring. It's going to feel like a boutique hotel, and you're going to come through the service is going to be completely different. You know, we offering a lot of other types of services in the building. That's really the main big difference that you'll see for people in particular who remember the building that was there before. You know, it's going to be an incredible transformation.
Atif Z. Qadir 29:41
So speaking of transformation, you mentioned the Ace Hotel, and that was also a renovation. So it was originally the Kyoto central telephone office, and that was designed by Tetsuro Yoshida. And the renovation that you were referring to as your inspiration. And checking out the visuals. So, really beautiful woods, black, white, very cleanly done. That was by Kengo Kuma and Commune Design in LA. So for anyone that was curious about that reference, there you go.
Atif Z. Qadir 30:13
So I want to ask you about a bigger picture. So you had mentioned that there's some areas of Manhattan that are doing well in terms of office rents. There are certain parts of the city that will likely never be, never returned to the level they were before the pandemic. Pressure on cap rates. There's pressure on interest rates to make deals work. I want to talk about real estate debt. You're a little unusual as a developer, because division or business line within your company focus on real estate debt. So the credit markets complicated. How do you see the debt market today, and where do you see capital coming from for lending on projects like the Met Tower.
Michael Kirchmann 31:02
Yes, if we, if we focus on the office industry. For, for this question, I think it because office is very interesting. It's it's been a difficult road for the last few years for developers and and landlords and land and office owners. There hasn't been a lot of debt finance available for for office spaces. There's been a lot of need for it that as the office market has been ill defined over the past few years. You know, debt providers have been a little hesitant to get into the market. What's been great for us, though, over the last four or five years is because we are developers of office buildings. We build office buildings, we lease office buildings, we asset manage them. For us. Being in the in the debt market was a great opportunity, because we were able to identify which assets out there in the New York City office market were actually worth taking a bet on, and if something would go wrong during any part of that loan, we had the ability to help out, help the borrower out with construction or leasing or asset management. So it gave us an opportunity to really cherry pick great assets. And as a result, we put debt out on several office buildings, 40, Crosby, 580, Broadway, 76/8, Avenue, etc, who all of which now are 100% leased, all of which are in triple A locations with great sponsors. So it's been a it's been a great opportunity for us. Now. What's happened over the last couple years is that a lot of the B note players that were in the space actually have become a note players. Even companies like Madison Realty capital have now really focused squarely on on a note. And they've, you know, they've raised fairly a lot of money to be able to support that.
Atif Z. Qadir 32:56
So just to clarify for listeners, by A note, you mean senior loan, right? Yeah.
Michael Kirchmann 33:01
So that's the A note is the senior loan that would be your low leverage 45 to 55 cent LTV type loan. And those, those players are generally the Main Street banks, the large investment companies, the private equity funds, you know, Goldman, Sachs, JP, Morgan, etc. The B note is the piece, the more risky, higher leverage piece. So for us, we'll probably go to, you know, 75% loan to value on a particular asset, although it's not really the loan to value that we look for. It's more of a basis for us. But it's been a difficult today's market there. There are plenty of players for the for the senior finance, but not very many players for the B note. So for us, we see a great opportunity to continue to provide finance for landlords and office developers in that part of the capital stack. So you know our debt platform, we have a separate business for that called GDS bright star, where we provide senior finance, mayors, pref equity, rescue capital, you know, I think what sets us apart from some of our competitors in this particular region is, you know, we're very creative in terms of structuring ideas and structuring workouts, structuring, you know, solving any particular structural problems. By structural, I mean cash deck structural, solving any particular structural problem and looking for great solutions on how to turn an asset around, putting the right amount of money into the asset to improve its overall value and sellability. And again, we understand construction. We know how to to underwrite and evaluate the work that needs to be completed. We know what time frames to to expect for, for construction, for leasing times if we're doing residential condos, we know what. We know who all the great sales brokers are. We use them if it's. Rental property. Likewise, we know who the star brokers are for rentals, and we deploy those, those relationships that we have.
Atif Z. Qadir 35:09
So it allows you to take the skill set, the sense of market needs, and then the relationships to be able to correct any issues with an asset. So it's a nice set of skills that you're able to port over to help a borrower in that situation as well.
Michael Kirchmann 35:26
Yeah, and I think that, I think our borrowers have seen over the years that we bring a lot of value add to the processes. We've saved 10s of millions of dollars in construction costs for our borrowers by helping them renegotiate subcontractor pricing. For example, because we're in the construction business, and we work with a lot of the subcontractors and the GCS, we have the ability to leverage our relationships as well, to go in with our borrower alongside them if they want our help, and to, you know, renegotiate some of these contracts that they may have renegotiate management contracts. So we've ended up saving, you know, 10s of millions of dollars on behalf of our of our borrowers, which is, which is a great value add that we can that really cost them nothing extra.
Atif Z. Qadir 36:15
So when a loan needs restructuring, that's one potential path when you have a loan, what are the key elements of a successful workout, both from your perspective and from the borrower's perspective?
Michael Kirchmann 36:31
So what's what's interesting is probably our main source of deal flow on the debt side are the backs. Are the senior lenders with the A notes, and we're approached by them, in many cases because they would like to have us in the cap stack. It serves as an insurance policy for everybody involved in the deal, because we're sitting in the B note behind the borrower. You know, again, we have the ability to complete construction, lease up, sell condo units, whatever the case may be. So in particular with difficult projects that have complicated structures and there's a lot of hair on a particular deal, banks will come to us specifically and seek out our help in finding a creative financing solution, but then implementing that creative financing solution creatively within the actual asset itself and the physicality of the asset itself. In many cases, banks will come to us with a problem, a defaulted borrower, problematic asset. Maybe it's a combination of both, and then we will approach that problem from two sides, both from the financial and structuring side as well as the physical asset side, and then help the borrower, in some cases, alongside the lender as well, come to some sort of solution through a structured process.
Atif Z. Qadir 37:52
And for any developers and lenders that are listening, what would you say the suggestions or the practical steps are that they can take to help prevent them from being in a situation where they will need a workout, and hopefully be able to preserve their upside in what is a relatively frothy environment for Office.
Michael Kirchmann 38:17
So I would say that, you know one, one thing that, that I always like to say to people, is that real estate is not just about the buildings. In fact, it's it's more so about the people. It's the people that are designing the projects, building the projects, financing the projects, very much so about the people who are servicing the projects. Once they're up and running the hospitality that's that's offered in a particular building. So I think going into any kind of development or any renovation or any sort of asset management, the best practical way to protect yourself is to make sure that you're surrounded by a great team of professionals who can continue to evaluate the product your consumer, whatever service you're offering to the market, and then continue to continually re evaluate what's happening with your particular asset, so you could try to stave off issues and problems down the road.
Atif Z. Qadir 39:15
So the best thing to be able to address a situation where it's problematic is to prevent the problem from existing in the first place, and the key to that is their relationships.
Michael Kirchmann 39:25
That's exactly right. So I was going to say, even if the problem has presented itself, it's your relationships that are going to help you, for the most part, to actually get out of those and it's relationship that you build up over, in my case, 30 years, that you know, if you have a great group of relationships that you can draw on when you are hitting a difficult patch, that's what's really going to help you. And obviously, each individual asset and each problem is different. So that's why my that's why my answer is so esoteric and broad. But within that construct, almost. Any problem can be solved with the right relationships and the right amount of creative thinking for that particular problem.
Atif Z. Qadir 40:07
That makes a ton of sense. And I would say that the bigger picture idea is that's essentially the thought process that or the experience that you had when you were looking at those first parts of the inspiration to become a developer. It was the relationships with your family and as you transition to start your own business, it was that relationship that you had entrusted you developed with your colleagues at som and then with Howard Ronson, your client. So even across the path of your own career. Those relationships are the ones that allow you to move from one point to the other in your career.
Michael Kirchmann 40:45
I mean, the relationships I've built up at som were invaluable to me later on, all very top shelf, the attorneys, the consultants, the designers. You know, all those relationships were grown and begun during my som days in the in the late 90s and early 2000s.
Atif Z. Qadir 41:04
And you mentioned earlier that SOM is one of the designers on a project for you, right?
Michael Kirchmann 41:10
Some of the design partners there are new as interns back in the 90s. And you know, today, we use som a lot. Som design 1245, Broadway som design 287, and they're doing the all the public spaces at Met Tower as well. And the plaza
Atif Z. Qadir 41:29
excellent in terms of an ask. So you have a very interesting platform we talked about in terms of the debt. So you are active in workouts and opportunistic repositioning for debt for office. So what kind of opportunities are you looking for now? And how can folks that want to reach out to you? How can they best reach out to you about those types of products you have?
Michael Kirchmann 41:52
So again, we're looking at the two primary businesses that we have. One is the equity side, which is development, where we are very active now in looking at new acquisitions, looking to do JVs with existing property owners, that's a that's a great business line of ours as well. You know, existing property owners who are looking to improve and enhance their their asset values, but perhaps they don't have immediate liquidity. So in that case, we can actually bring in all the go forward capital for our go you know, our JV partners, and you know, we're looking on the debt side as well, for, if you're a landowner or property owner, looking for some sort of special situations, resty capital, or even just a B note, or Some mayors or some prayer faculty. You know, we're very creative. We're very flexible. We can recognize great assets. And, you know, we're enthusiastic about real estate in general, in New York City, so we're always very excited to get stuck in we love to be collaborative and creative with great partners, amazing.
Atif Z. Qadir 43:04
So folks can reach out by email to studio@gdsny.com that's that's it for today. So I really appreciate your time, Michael, for coming here and joining us on the market building podcast.
Michael Kirchmann 43:17
And I would say one, one more thing is you can also probably the best place to see our work is on Instagram. @GDSNY, we are relatively you know, we're pretty good at updating those with with projects and images and projects in progress. So it's a great place to see what we do on a daily basis. And the website as well. GdS ny.com is kept up to date pretty vigilantly as well, so you can you can see the our products and projects there.
Atif Z. Qadir 43:46
Excellent. Thank you for that information, Michael.
Michael Kirchmann 43:48
You're welcome.
Atif Z. Qadir 43:52
I'm Atif Qadir, and thanks for joining me on American building. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on your favorite listing app and leave a rating and review. America's housing crisis is one of our greatest challenges. But what are the real solutions? Hear from the developers and other industry experts driving meaningful change. Get our exclusive guide housing in America, eight ways we can solve our way out of a crisis at Americanbuildingpodcast.com.