Atif Z. Qadir 00:03
Welcome to American building. I'm your host Atif Qadir. Join me as we explore the skylines and strip malls, the crosswalks and rail crossings, the balconies, the buildings and the boroughs shaping the next generation of real estate. Let's build common ground.
Atif Z. Qadir 00:26
Today, our guest is Tina Ladd, the managing director of Real Estate at Aker. Tina studied architecture at Cornell and began her career as an architect at Kohn Pedersen Fox and at Morris Adjmi Architects in New York. She continued her studies at Columbia's masters in real estate program and transitioned to development by joining the related companies there. She worked on major residential projects in New York and large institutional and mixed use projects in Detroit. She joined Aker in 2022 and has grown into her current role heading real estate development for the company.
Atif Z. Qadir 01:05
Aker is a real estate platform focusing on developing and operating residential communities that connect urban density with the outdoors. Its portfolio includes 19 projects across New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and Massachusetts, and they range from six units to 775 units. Today we will talk about the redevelopment of the Kinwood. It's a garden style apartment complex in Rensselaer, New York. Thank you so much for being here with us. Tina,
Tina Ladd 01:36
Thank you so much for having me.
Atif Z. Qadir 01:38
Absolutely. It's my pleasure. You started your career as an architect, just like me. Tell us about what you worked on and what you learned in that process.
Tina Ladd 01:47
Sure. So right after school, I joined Kohn Pedersen Fox, as you mentioned, basically the first week that I was there, Kpf was green lighted to start the western rail yards at Hudson Yards with related and I was, you know, lucky enough to be on that team, so I was thrown into this massive scale of development, and it was a small team, and truthfully, it was incredible experience. The team grew substantially over the time that I worked on this project. I got exposure to super tall buildings, exposure to retail, exposure to the complexity of infrastructure, including the platform over the live rail yards. And ultimately, it was just a phenomenal learning experience. I learned that I can really love what I do. In my career, I had an excitement and a passion about what I was doing. I specifically loved the idea of shaping environments. And I think, you know, in school, I didn't have the expectation that I would be working on something so large scale, but it was really incredible to see this, you know, transforming in my backyard as I lived in New York. So ultimately, I had this exposure to real estate at a grand scale, and also exposure to related which, you know, is where I ended up going. My interests during that time began shifting, and I wanted to really see a more holistic point of view and be on the side of the decision making process. So before going back to school, which is something I considered, I did get experience at Morris Adjmi, I wanted to learn more about the residential asset class, and which is ultimately what I really focused on as I moved out of my career,
Atif Z. Qadir 03:19
Amazing. So you did mention Columbia, and that's where you transition to in order to pursue the Masters in real estate. And I believe concurrently you joined related. So tell us about what that transition was like and what you were learning in those two new environments.
Tina Ladd 03:36
You know, it was really interesting. I decided to do this program at Columbia because I wanted to get a better sense of what real estate development was like. I had an idea sitting, you know, at the table with the design manager at related and getting some exposure, but I knew that there was so much I was missing about real estate development, and I felt that if I went back to school, I could really expand my skill set beyond just design and also learn about financial modeling and all the different pieces that go into real estate development. And I actually started interning at related while I was in this program. So I I immediately, kind of jumped into working with related, and that was a phenomenal experience. It's almost like a very long term interview. And I ended up staying there because I was really enjoying that experience, and I was learning quite
Atif Z. Qadir 04:23
a bit. So in both of those situations at Columbia and at related I'm guessing there are people that you learned from and saw as mentors. Could you highlight some of the things that you learned from developers while you were training to become a developer yourself?
Tina Ladd 04:40
So I wouldn't say that I had any single mentor that kind of stuck with me through my career, but I have had great influencers that I've looked up to, and I've received a lot of guidance. So even before I guess, I transitioned to real estate development, I had an incredible boss at KPF who created a wonderful camaraderie around the. Team, and she set this high bar as this influential woman in a male dominated environment at the level that she was at. So from the beginning, I saw a woman that was able to achieve so much, and I felt very lucky to have her guidance and her mentorship, and I still take a lot of what she taught me during that time, and that's still relevant in my career.
Atif Z. Qadir 05:18
Who is it?
Tina Ladd 05:19
Marianne Kwok,
Atif Z. Qadir 05:20
Mary Ann Kwok, okay,
Tina Ladd 05:22
yeah, and she led the design of Hudson Yards while I was there, and she was a phenomenal mentor. And then as I made the transition, there was one woman who was a client of mine when I was at mA and she was a an alum of the Columbia program. I reached out to her, and I asked her about her experience there, and she really encouraged me to to do the same. And you know, I really appreciated her guidance. She was young, she was starting her own firm in Detroit, and, you know, coincidentally, I ended up working on a project in Detroit later. But she really guided me through that process, and she gave me a lot of advice through my different job opportunities. And we continue to stay in touch, and everyone consider her a friend. So it's these various people that you meet along the way that really impact how you think about things. And one thing that I really learned is people are really willing to help. Like, if you go, if you approach somebody and show interest in what they're doing and want to learn from them, more or less, they're going to say yes. It's rare that they say no, and that's something that I really learned through this process, especially as a student in Columbia. Like the best time to learn is when you're a student, everyone is really open and willing to chat with you, and I learned a tremendous amount chatting with different people that I had encountered throughout my career.
Atif Z. Qadir 06:36
Amazing. And could you tell us who that person was in Detroit? That was your client at MA
Tina Ladd 06:42
Yes, Amelia Patt-Zamir, and she has a firm called Method development in Detroit.
Atif Z. Qadir 06:47
Awesome. So love to hear about folks starting development companies in different stages of development, and that's great to hear that you were able to learn from those folks. So you were talking about the beginning of your career as a developer, and then there's an immense amount that you learned at related that you brought to your role at Aker. So before we dive into Aker, I want to understand that process that brought you to Aker, and what were the skill sets that you gained and you learned in that time as you were training as a developer at related,
Tina Ladd 07:21
Sure. So I think that there were two very influential things that I learned in my time there. One was the ability to manage people. So I think as an architect, you're part of a team and you're you're all like rowing in the same boat, accountable for these large deliverables. But on the flip side, when I moved to related, you become accountable for multiple teams and alignment of deliverables. So, you know, I really enjoyed this idea of managing multiple teams in different disciplines, and thrived on that collaboration and that sort of relationship building that occurred with that. So that's something that I learned that I really loved, and I wanted to continue to do. And then the other thing, which I think was really the most impactful, is I learned that there's really nothing that's impossible, and there's always a solution. So while I was at related, I had the great benefit of working directly with Stephen Ross on this mixed use plan in Detroit. And you know, I had seen him and seen his visionary at Kpf when I was working at Hudson Yards, but working directly with him, and seeing that vision that he has, and his strong presence, he's really relentless in the way that he pursues that vision. And you know, a great example is we were working on this infrastructural piece of this master plan. It was like this large, open green space over a highway, and the numbers came in for the infrastructure, and they were so high, like it was, it would never pencil, right? But that remained in the vision, like that was not going to leave the vision, and we had to figure it out, right?
Tina Ladd 08:52
So I forced myself to sort of learn all of the components about this infrastructure. Like I wanted to know everything about the engineering that went into it, I wanted to know everything about the structure, everything about the MEP, like, what were the things that were driving these costs? At the end of the day, there was an opportunity to really push consultants really think outside the box, and I came up with a direct recommendation on how we might modify the design to make that work. And ultimately, it cut the price almost in half. And that was such a great lesson to me that, like, even though we were all sitting there thinking, how can we possibly get this done, there was a solution. It just takes that perseverance and recognizing that there isn't an alternative. And I think at the end of the day, like, if you have a grand idea, you might not execute it exactly how you thought about it, but the version of it that will work, and so you can't really take no for an answer, and that's something that I definitely brought with me to my career in Aker. And it's it's something that I think about on a daily basis as we push the envelope and what we can achieve.
Atif Z. Qadir 09:57
I love it, as Stephen Ross is a really influential person. And I had a chance to hear from him, meet him at the Ross School, and I went there for one of their conferences. So definitely appreciate that was an awesome opportunity for you. And I'm curious, could you tell the listeners just the maybe, like the nuts and bolts or the kind of summary version of what was driving that cost and infrastructure, and what was the idea that allowed that to go from a no to a yes?
Tina Ladd 10:26
Yeah. So again, I say this when this was early in the planning, and to date, it hasn't necessarily been executed, but I will say So the challenges here was just covering a large area of a highway, you need substantial ventilation, and the ventilation required was, I mean, it was just so much structure and so much ventilation, and, you know, components to that, but ultimately, just by sort of opening up parts of this overlay, you can naturally ventilate, and it cut back a tremendous amount of that infrastructure. It seems simple when you say it in five minutes, but it took, like a while to get there. And I have to say, I don't know where it ended up, because I wasn't there to see it through, but that practice was really exciting, and it taught me a lot.
Atif Z. Qadir 11:11
One of the things that's so unique about our industry is the fact that there's so many different professionals that are together creating one reality. Is not to assume that what you are thinking or the idea that you have everyone has it automatically. So being able to not only think about that and develop that solution, but then verbalize it and get the buy in of everyone else is really impressive. And I think in particular, whether you're the architect in the design process, you're the conductor of that orchestra, or the developer in the development process, you're the conductor of that orchestra. I definitely appreciate that. Thanks for sharing that. So let's talk about Aker. So really amazing company. I appreciate their visuals, their mission, their work that they're doing. So tell me about how that process worked. Did they reach out to you? What were your initial impressions and what attracted you the company?
Tina Ladd 12:05
Yeah, so they did initially reach out to me, and it was kind of an interesting timing. I had recently had my third child, and I was in this transitional period thinking about, like, where do I go with this career? Like, there's these moments in life where you start to reconsider. And it just so happened that Aker reached out to me around that time, and like a model, will Brocker has founded the company in 2020, so they, they were in business school together. They started investing in the Hudson Valley. They both had ties there. And, you know, at that time, it was sort of during covid and there were tail winds to that market, and they had this opportunity to begin building a small team, and that small team that they were building had really exceptional talent, and they were also really great at filling the dream. So when they approached me, I saw this opportunity really to be part of something that was smaller, something that I could really influence and be more entrepreneurial and at the end of the day, like it would offer more autonomy and decision making, and I could really get my hands into everything. And that's something that, you know, working at a large institutional firm, there are massive advantages working on these massive projects and getting exposure to all this talent, but you don't really get to see everything in the same way that you do when you're in this smaller entrepreneurial environment. And that opportunity really attracted me to Aker.
Atif Z. Qadir 13:22
Amazing and at that point, how many projects have they had under their belt?
Tina Ladd 13:26
Oh, man, it's hard to remember specifically, but I would say there was a portfolio four properties that we were working on. They had just acquired a couple in the capital region and two in Poughkeepsie. So maybe, maybe like seven. You know, I'm just gonna take a wild guess.
Atif Z. Qadir 13:41
So, seven capital region, you mean Albany? Is that correct?
Tina Ladd 13:44
Yeah, the Albany region, the Saratoga Springs in particular was Saratoga Springs. They had just purchased the property that we're talking about in Rensselaer and another one in co host, New York.
Atif Z. Qadir 13:54
Okay, seven properties. They're currently in 19. So the company has grown since you have also grown in terms of the roles that you have at the company. And a big part of that transition to be able to go from a smaller company to a larger one is growing the team. So talk to me about your role in attracting new talent and retaining employees. And you mentioned managing people and working with people is a huge part of the foundational aspects of your career. What do you think about when you are looking to grow your team, and what do you think makes people successful at Aker?
Tina Ladd 14:32
Yeah, so I have to say one of the best things about Aker is the team itself. It's a team of very talented, eager individuals that are also humble. And I want to emphasize humble, because I think that that really differentiates Aker from a lot of shops in real estate, right? One of the things that Mike Amato had said to me when he was recruiting me is that, you know, they look to hire experts in their field to learn from them and listen to them. Oh, well, this idea that. I i would have a voice coming in, because I have certain expertise, and specifically in like, the design and execution of properties, right? And this was a very different perspective than other firms and other places that I've worked where seniority seems to take precedent, like because you're more seniority, you know the most, and it's harder to have a voice. And I also feel that in as a woman in real estate, it has been a little bit harder to have a voice at times, and I really appreciated their perspective, and that is a perspective that I share with anybody that I'm recruiting. I think it's really important that the people that are considering Aker see that it's an opportunity to really have an influence, like no matter how senior you are, you can be the most junior person on the team. If you have a great idea, that idea will be listened to and it will be actionable, like, there's no seniority in a good idea. And that's something that I really appreciate about Aker, and it's something that I certainly discuss when we're recruiting. And you know, as we're recruiting, we're obviously looking for people that are really interested in shaping a newer company, right? And have that drive to make a change.
Atif Z. Qadir 16:06
What you described in terms of an executive surrounding himself or herself with folks that are very talented and know producing more than that CEO does about certain topics is something that feels very presidential as well. So I know that George Bush, too verbalized that as a key piece of the way he assembled his cabinet, and the same thing that Bill Clinton did as well. So that's certainly, I think, a much bigger minded approach than to perhaps take another path. So you talked about one thing in particular, about the challenges that women face in this industry, and I think that's absolutely an important topic to bring up, what were some of the things that you noticed that made you experience that, like, was it about the way that communications happened, or what were some of the anecdotes or things that you're willing to share?
Tina Ladd 16:50
I mean, I think, without getting too specific there, there were various times throughout my career where, where I did feel that for my voice to be heard, I needed to really, really prove myself, like it wasn't enough to come into the room and say something confidently and and for someone to believe me, but I'm the only woman in a room full of men, which has been very frequent, right? It was just harder. So it's like getting your head down, working really hard, and then earning people's trust. And that's something that I learned, that I eventually earn trust, and then things become much easier at that point. It's an uphill battle at the beginning, and I have felt that at Aker that didn't exist in the same way. And in fact, our business leaves at Aker. Three of them are women, and it's very unique in that way.
Atif Z. Qadir 17:35
Good. Yeah, I think that what you're describing is something similar to what I felt as a different person at many job sites, at Turner Construction and there, what I often found is, when you have a leader that is very keenly interested in what everyone has to say, then they're able to really pull out the expertise of people that may traditionally to get over several more hurdles to actually be heard. That's great to hear that, that anecdote, that background, besides being a place where voices are heard, the firm is unique because it's 100% employee owned. So what does that actually mean in practice? Because that's relatively unusual for development
Tina Ladd 18:14
companies. Yeah. So what it means, quite literally, is that there are no external owners, only members of the team on the firm. And one thing that's really unique is that our employees are financially vested in each project across all levels. So it's not just, you know, the acquisitions team or certain people certain seniority levels, it's everybody has that opportunity to be vested. And that creates the level of accountability across the team, like we're all moving together, because we all benefit from the success of these projects, and we all feel like we're really part of it. And again, there's that like extra layer of influence that that you feel you have.
Atif Z. Qadir 18:51
So speaking of projects, the kin one, Sarah originally built in 2003 and it was called mansions at Technology Park. It has 390 units, and they're one to three bedrooms, and they're laid out as a garden style complex. So describe mansions at Technology Park and what it was like before purchased it.
Tina Ladd 19:13
First of all, I will say that when I joined Akre, this garden style complex, that was more value added something that I had never really experienced before. Like this was a brand new product type, and I was really excited to use the skill set that I learned in my previous life and ground up development to do something completely different. And really like challenge this asset type, right? And Kenwood, or I should say it's now, can win, but at the time, Manchus a technology park. It was owned by a former owner was from the Midwest, and just had this single asset in this region. So it wasn't getting a lot of a detention. There was substantial deferred maintenance. It had a kind of a bad connotation. It wasn't like the first place that got attention and leasing who. It had eroded paving. It had failing roofs, failing HVAC. There were very few communal spaces across this very large campus, and the resident piece was really more transactional. It was less engagement in the community. It was more transient. It was well located next to a technology park close to Albany, close to Troy. So very well located in a growing job market, but definitely a place where people didn't necessarily settle in.
Atif Z. Qadir 20:33
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Atif Z. Qadir 21:31
What was the the analysis and the thought process that Aker went through in evaluating the decision to buy and then from there, developing a plan of what to do.
Tina Ladd 21:42
Yeah, so I think we saw significant opportunity in the region itself. This wasn't the first property in upstate New York or in the capital region. We saw that region as one that had significant job growth in the tech, education and healthcare areas, and we also saw that there was an inelastic housing market. So just from a market play it, it was a really interesting market to be in. Manchester technology park like specifically, just had a tremendous potential for improvement when you walk that property because of all the deferred maintenance. I mean, there was literally no reinvestment for 21 years. So this property was just kind of going downhill. So we were able to think about, how could we redefine how residents receive this property? How can residents better use the property? How do we increase retention and how do we achieve market rents here? Those were the drivers of our decision making and our business plan, and ultimately, we really started by locating those opportunities for improvement, but repositioning the property from a branding perspective, was also a big effort that we went through to define how we wanted to approach this project.
Atif Z. Qadir 22:46
Now, as you are diving into the process of redeveloping and renovating this property, what were the phases that you were looking to, looking to lay out this work? What are the phases of development like, what were you doing when?
Tina Ladd 23:02
we effectively started? I mean, we do some things in parallel, right? And this was early on in the company growth and one of our larger projects at the time. So we didn't have a perfect system down yet, but what we did recognize there was a certain order of operation that would be successful. We felt that if we really addressed, like the overall branding and marketing to kind of provide a guiding light as to what we want to achieve from you know, what do we want residents to expect when they come to this property? Like, how are we what type of overall community are we creating? And the branding really helped define that. And then we also looked at it as we need to immediately show some common improvements and deferred maintenance improvements to encourage the residents that were here and we're going to improve the living environment that you're in.
Tina Ladd 23:50
It's also hard to live at a property when improvements are occurring, so if there are things under construction, that's definitely inconvenient. So we want the residents to trust us, and a big part of that also is communication. So our overall plan was really, let's get the branding right. Let's start showing deferred maintenance and improvements. Let's encourage residents with great communication, referring back to that branding that we've developed, you know, and then we'll start renovating units. And we are renovating units on turn. And those units, they really show the best, and they really do well when there's common area improvements that lift them all up by executing the common area improvements as quickly as possible, we see that those, you know, residential unit renovations do much better. I mean, that's sort of a way around saying, and it's not so linear in the way that I described it, but, but we're really thoughtful about the way that we you know, the order in which we deliver things and how we deliver them. And a great example of that is we effectively came in, we immediately repaved the property, and that made just a massive improvement. And residents were so excited about that because the roads were in such bad condition. So we come in, we're new owners. We do that. And. There's immediately, like a positive association with what we're doing as new owners, and then we begin to execute improvements from there.
Atif Z. Qadir 25:08
What were some when you're doing the turns of the units? What were the, some of the things that you were focusing on on those turns?
Tina Ladd 25:13
Yeah, so the turns of the unit, we were very thoughtful about the specific scope, because in this market, you know, it's Rensselaer New York. It's not Manhattan, where you're gonna where there's no ceiling and rents. So there's certainly a tipping point in a return on cost. And what we found was most successful in these units were some of the key materials. So we came in, the units had carpeting, and we replaced that with LDT flooring, which just immediately made the units so much fresher, like you get rid of smells and you have this a clean floor. We kept the cabinetry because we felt, you know, replacing the cabinetry here there wasn't going to be much return on cost. But what we did do is we added cabinet hardware and that that elevated the look of the kitchen. We replaced all of the appliances to stainless steel, and we did, you know, we executed fresh paint, replaced all the fixtures in the bathrooms, all the accessories in the bathrooms, the plumbing fixtures throughout. So everything that you kind of would feel and touch was like, felt nil. And it really TR like was a total transformation. And then one of the things that we do when we when we execute these unit renovations is we always we try to stage a unit. And here we we stage a unit with, you know, very stylish furniture, but also accessible furniture, and it shows residents the potential of of where you live, and with some window treatments and some stylish furniture, this apartment that still has, you know, these older cabinets and still has linoleum counters. It can still look very elevated, and it was extremely well received.
Atif Z. Qadir 26:47
Excellent. As a new tenant or a potential tenant to this property, if our listeners are coming here to take a look, walk us through their property and tell us what they would experience along the way.
Tina Ladd 27:01
Sure. So at approaching the property, you would see our new branded monument sign and new landscape. So hopefully some flowering landscape in the spring and the summer, and this very bright, playful monument sign. And then the leasing office is right, sort of the clubhouse is right at the front of the property, and we had gut renovated the clubhouse, provided this really fresh new leasing office area, an area that people can come in and wait and have coffee and, you know, be brought into the leasing office and at the same time, has have a view into all of the amenities that we renovated. So the leasing office before was part of a clubhouse, I should say, wasn't used by anybody but property staff, really it was. It was effectively this, like dated house that had various management areas, but we transformed it into a leasing office. It had a den and a game room, a library, lounge areas, a kitchen that has a window that connects to the outdoor pool for like, ice cream socials, and then we totally revamped the gym. So upon arriving and going into the leasing office, you have a visual to all of these amenities, which is a great first impression for the property.
Tina Ladd 28:15
And then our leasing agents will take them to the model unit, which I think you know, it just shows the apartment in a way that really fulfills its potential. And in walking around, you see the site improvements that we have executed, which include, like, new walking trails. We've improved the playground. There's like, a traceable trail that goes around the playground. There are community gardens, community picnic areas, an improved dog park, all these areas around the property that can be used by residents. And our phenomenal property management team has been on top of having resident events, you know, as much as they can to bring people together. So that's been very successful.
Atif Z. Qadir 28:55
So the the way that we're looking at this project, we talked about what it was before and what to focus on in the renovation, redevelopment process. One key piece that I want to dive into is the rebranding. The rebranding of property was based on five key values. So that's dependable, authentic, accessible, whimsical and homely. What does that mean to you in the execution of that development plan, and then as a guiding light for the team members that are responsible for managing the property?
Tina Ladd 29:31
Absolutely. So those values that you just expressed, they all are kind of linked to this idea that we're creating a property that has accessibility, and it promotes sort of an authenticity and trust, right? Like that, dependable service, the sense of community and playfulness, like the whimsical is like a little bit playful. There's a lot of families in the community, and ultimately, like that, all sort of shapes this idea of creating, like community, being a good neighbor. And that is. Something that really shaped the way that we approached this property, because we were highly focused on creating community gathering spaces that would truly bring people together and offer an opportunity to have these community events, so that people could move in and they could feel like they're at home, and they can settle in, make friends and stay for a long time. Because, you know, a lot of the residents here, they might not be entering home ownership anytime soon, and it is a good place for them to settle down.
Tina Ladd 30:26
We created a great place for parents to wait for their kids getting off the bus, and for kids to wait to get on the bus, like all of these things that, from like a day to day standpoint, provides ease for the residents. And truthfully, I think you see so much like luxury living. And I feel like when you hear the word luxury these days, it means nothing, like people slap that word on on every property, everything, regardless, like it could be like the least luxurious apartment complex, but it says luxury living. And we didn't want to, like, fool ourselves into saying that we're providing a luxurious living experience. This is a garden style complex in upstate New York, and there's a ceiling to what it is, but we wanted it to be the best of what it could be, and the best of what it can be is a beautiful community where people feel at home.
Atif Z. Qadir 31:12
There's something very important that we described, because it feels like when it comes to the branding of real estate, there's this knee jerk reaction that is really based on this idea of aspiration, that everyone should aspire to, this idea of luxury, and that luxury is even accessible to all different types of people. And I think it leads to a misalignment of expectations and reality when that term is slapped onto things there just are clearly aren't and there will never be luxury. And I think the terms and the terminology that you guys picked and focused on for this project, I think, stake out a very different path, which is one about honesty and authenticity of the product, and there's certainly beauty and really incredible opportunity in that it just doesn't have to either truly or falsely scream luxury. So I think that that's a really important distinction, in a way that is notably different than the way that real estate marketing typically happens. I want to understand the folks that were a part of the rebranding process, the consultants, the team members, and what roles they play?
Tina Ladd 32:23
Yeah, definitely. So we worked with No Walls out of Chicago. They've been a phenomenal branding partner with us. We've done a few projects with them, and they have a pretty defined set of pretty defined like process that they go through. They start with stakeholder interviews, which I think are really, really helpful. So they speak to residents. You might there might be a select group of residents that they speak to, and they they speak to them for quite some time, like, up to an hour, and really get a sense of how this resident lives in the property, what this resident is looking for, what they love the most, what they don't like. It gives them a sense of like, okay, how can we capitalize on the things that they like and improve the things that they don't? They also talk to us like there's resident stakeholder interview, or, sorry, stakeholder interviews with Aker employees as well as our property management staff, so you get this holistic view of how people see the property and see the potential of the property.
Tina Ladd 33:16
And with that, they begin working on the brand positioning, which includes, like, the key values and also a voice and tone. So the voice and tone is really important too. Like, the walls has a phenomenal way of coming up with catchy phrases and a unique way to communicate in Resident flyers, for example, or emails that really still is very aligned with the brand. Like, it's like this neighborly way of communicating. That's something they came up with. And then also, I will say, like, part of what they offered, they had an interior designer in house at the time, and we worked with her through the renovation of the clubhouse. And, you know, the branding colors that we came up with, the visual identity, like it's very consistent with how we executed the design, not in like a total literal way, but the design itself is whimsical and it is approachable, and it is all these things that we discussed as our core values of the brand. And so everything just carries through so cohesively and that that makes the project really successful, that you see that branding, you believe in that branding, and then it is executed from a physical standpoint, and it all comes together, and that cohesion is just, is just really important, I think, in developing these properties.
Atif Z. Qadir 34:36
So No Walls also did the branding, and the brand positioning of Aker as a company, right?
Tina Ladd 34:41
Yeah, yeah. We helped us with the branding and positioning of Aker, and they helped us with our website, which we're all very proud of, yeah. And we work with them on our property, Perennial and Terrytown, which, or our ever bend at Terrytown, which is one of our newer properties in Westchester,
Atif Z. Qadir 34:57
That's, I think, very useful to have. A company that put together the values and the branding of the company also work on a specific project, property for that company, they're allowing there to be a tie between the two. So for The Kinwood, what were the final deliverables that you got that became the Bible, or the guiding light for the development process and management?
Tina Ladd 35:21
Yeah, so at the end of the day, the deliverable is really the brand guidelines, and we use those to coach our third property managers, to use that the voice and tone and to use the templates that are created for resident flyers and things like that. And at Kenwood in particular, we had the benefit of just working with an awesome management team who was very bought into this vision, and they were excited to use it and to excite the residents about all of these improvements and and really, you know, live up to that branding expectation.
Atif Z. Qadir 35:54
So from the way that you look at the investment into rebranding. How do you measure the return on investment on that? Is that a part of your marketing budget, so it's considered purely a spend? Or how do you contextualize it? Because that's also notably different than many developers who choose to execute on something without necessarily thinking through the word choice and communication, styles and imagery?
Tina Ladd 36:23
Yeah, I would say, I mean, it's obviously subjective, so there's no real way to track the ROI of what we send them branding, but I can see the value in how it streamlines our process, right? If we have, if we have a strong thesis, when I talk about thesis, it's not necessarily the business plan thesis, but the thesis is, what is driving the design of how we're executing. Then there's always something to look back to to make sure we're on track, you know? And we also work very closely with our third party partners. So, you know, my my colleague and I have another design manager on our team, and she has a phenomenal eye for branding and a phenomenal eye for visuals. We really do work hand in hand and work to perfect what we come up with. We see value in it, but it's very, very hard to measure, because it's not like you are renovating an apartment and you could see I spent X and the ROI is x, like branding is, you know, it just kind of sets a tone, and you expect and hope that it drives traffic on the website, and it, you know, it influences how people experience property.
Atif Z. Qadir 37:29
That makes total sense. And I would imagine, given that there's a portfolio of projects that their company has executed on, or is in the process of executing, perhaps another way of looking at that is across projects. Has the process of rebranding delivered differentiation on the product and helped to contribute to meeting of the particular lease up goals? So tell me big picture. How does Aker think about rebranding properties, say, on a company level, across different properties and any kind of patterns or trends you've noticed.
Tina Ladd 38:05
Yeah. So we kind of take two different approaches. There's one approach, which is coming to a property it might be especially sort of distressed in a way that from a physical standpoint, like Kinwood and, you know, Mansions at Technology Park is not exactly the most it's not a name that you're going to think of as a place that you want to settle down and call home.
Atif Z. Qadir 38:28
It's such an odd combination of two things. One is this idea, this feeling of a massive house that's separated from other people, the opposite of community. And then Technology Park feels like some bland, class B suburban office complex has nothing to do with residential.
Tina Ladd 38:44
100% so we knew going into this project that it needed to be renamed, and we've entered a few properties where we have gone through the renaming process. So we decide, we kind of determine, is this a property that merits rebranding to the point of renaming and completely repositioning the brand. So there are select properties that have that, and then there are properties that the name is really okay, the reputation is really okay. But we always do refresh the branding because and in that case, we might work with some talented graphic designers, and we do a lot of the narrative work in house, and that always translates to an updated website, updated photography. And again, because we have design in house, we're able to really create cohesion with those brands and the ultimate product that we create physically. It's just not necessarily as straightforward as you know, if we do a whole brand reposition where we have this like major brand guideline, but we always do have some sort of brand guideline, and it always does influence how we execute from a design standpoint.
Atif Z. Qadir 39:52
I want to ask what's currently exciting, what's going on on the property or the company level that you want to share with our listeners to be able to engage with you all?
Tina Ladd 40:01
I mean, we, we're continuing to grow. We're launching our first fund very soon, so we see a lot of exciting opportunities. We've been growing. We we recently acquired a property and right outside of Manhattan, and a couple in Westchester, so we're, we're getting closer to the New York market. We're constantly looking and excited to continue to grow our portfolio. And ultimately, you know, with these value add properties that we execute, we're just looking to create like a property that has best operations, best environment for residents, so that we an environment where people want to stay, where we increase resident retention, and where we see our residents referring other residents. And if we can do those things, we know that we're being successful in what we're executing.
Atif Z. Qadir 40:49
Excellent so that brings us to the end of our time together. Tina, I wanted to thank you for your time today, and I really appreciate all of the insights that you shared about Kinwood as well as Aker and then your own path to being a developer.
Tina Ladd 41:05
Well, thank you. I really appreciate you having me, and yeah, I look forward to listening to the podcast
Atif Z. Qadir 41:14
I'm Atif Qadir, and thanks for joining me on American Building. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on your favorite listing app and leave a rating and review. America's housing crisis is one of our greatest challenges. But what are the real solutions? Hear from the developers and other industry experts driving meaningful change. Get our exclusive guide housing in America, eight ways we can solve our way out of a crisis at American building podcast.com, you.