Maxwell Worrell and Jejon Yeung of Worrell Yeung | Studio Barn and Principles for Successful Adaptive Reuse

Transcript

Atif Z. Qadir  00:03

Welcome to American Building. I'm your host Atif Qadir. Join me as we explore the skylines and strip malls, the crosswalks and rail crossings, the balconies, the buildings and the boroughs shaping the next generation of real estate. Let's build common ground. 

Atif Z. Qadir  00:22

Today, our guests are architects Jejon Yeung and Max Worrell of Worrell Yeung. Jejon began his career as an architect at Carleton University, and then went to Yale's School of Architecture. Soon afterwards, he joined the design firm, architecture research office, coincidentally, arrows, Kim Yao was on the podcast in season one, and the link to her episode will be in the show notes. Max studied architecture at Oklahoma State University and at Yale with ju Jun. He previously worked at Allied works architecture and Bernheimer architecture. Jejon and Max launched their firm in 2015, Worrell Yeung is a New York City based full service design firm. Its work has been featured in wallpaper Architectural Record and dwell. Today we will talk about the studio barn project in Westerly Rhode Island. It is the renovation and conversion of a historic barn into a workspace for an artist couple. More broadly, we will share Jejon and Max secrets on how to do an adaptive reuse project. Thank you so much for being here with us. Jejon and Max. 

Jejon Yeung  01:39

Thank you.

Atif Z. Qadir  01:40

Absolutely. Okay, so let's dial it all back. What did you learn at the firms that you worked at before going out on your own? 

Jejon Yeung  01:49

Well, I was a project director. I was at architecture research office for almost a decade, and so it was quite a bit of time. It was my second job out of grad school, and I think the key takeaways was really, I think Adam, Kim and Steven, the principals at that studio, are some of the smartest architects I know, and I've met in my career, and they are also very kind and humble, and as a result, foster a great studio environment that really values the collective voices of everybody in the studio, regardless of level. And so it was a very kind of wholesome, collaborative environment. I think they are so good at dissecting complex programmatic problems with clients and turning that in through diagram and conversation. And they're great communicators, which that requires, and then using that information and being able to implement strong design with those tools. 

Atif Z. Qadir  02:55

How about you, Max?

Maxwell Worrell  02:57

Yeah, so I started working right after grad school at Allied works architecture for a year, and that firm was, at the time, just setting up the New York office to work on the Museum of Art and Design. And so the clients and the projects were very kind of sophisticated cultural institutions that I think afforded what was at the time like a really nice transition from grad school to more professional work life. And then I think the scale of those projects, while very exciting and rewarding, also felt like you were just a smaller team member. And so then I went on to work for Bernheimer architecture, and Andy is great friends with the ARO people, and so I think he follows similar principles in terms of ideas of how to work and craft the studio. And I think the projects were such scale wise that it really allowed me and other people to really learn. And I think that's where I learned how to be an architect in terms of, like, take a concept and really push it through to a client and then also draw through it really kind of work through those details with collaborators, and then be able to oversee it during construction. And so I think Andy afforded it because he's a professor. He's really kind of a teaching mind, I think, in terms of giving people a lot of runway to figure out how to make things work. And so I feel like he in particular, afforded a really great learning opportunity for me and gave me a lot of skillset to now be able to do what we do here at Worrell Yeung.

Atif Z. Qadir  04:30

So the two of you met when you guys were in grad school at Yale. So how did you guys meet and then talk to me about the genesis of the idea to start your own firm.

Maxwell Worrell  04:40

We actually met on the first day of grad school. There's an orientation session that you're required to take, and at the time it was a wood shop orientation class. So we met in the wood shops. Yeah, and the whole idea was that you had to demonstrate the ability to use the table saw and some of the other things that would be used. To make models, but we are partners in life as in business. So we met first as life partners. It started out as more of a romantic relationship.

Atif Z. Qadir  05:10

I was gonna say that's pretty impressive, right from the orientation at wood shop. You're like, let's do this straight. To it straight. Let's get married. 

Jejon Yeung  05:18

I remember we took one seminar class together and had to collaborate on one project, and I think it was a very challenging process. And I think we even said, like, I don't know if we can ever work together,

Maxwell Worrell  05:29

Yeah, yeah. I don't think it was like immediate imagine one day having our own firm, and I think it evolved more naturally as we worked through our careers and just kind of seeing the experiences that we just talked about at aro and at Bernheimer, seeing these role models for us, and being kind of just feeling more and more like that we had the skill set to maybe, like, do it ourselves. There was always this idea of like, okay, like, let's just think about it, and we'll just wait for like, the perfect project to come through, and that never happened. There was never like, somebody knocking on the door. And so there was a moment where we were like, we're gonna just have to make this happen, instead of, like, waiting for it to happen. And so at 2015 we made the decision together, but it basically, I started the practice first, and Ji Jong continued to work at aro for about another, almost two years, while L'Oreal young got off the ground, so to speak.

Atif Z. Qadir  06:30

Tell me about the firm now and what you're focusing on. 

Jejon Yeung  06:34

Yeah. So a lot of our portfolio is focused on residential work, and that will always be a strong part of what we go after, what we joy and love doing. But we also are lucky to be working on a few other technologies, of projects that are different. We're working on a farm in Rhode Island as well, which includes both residential component but also a large agricultural infrastructure to support cultivating this landscape for propagation production. We're working on a interesting adaptive reuse project for the museum modern art, renovating their founders room where they do all their board meetings and acquisitions, and that just started construction. We're very excited about that. We are also doing in terms like a very different typology, another kind of adaptive reuse and expansion of a historic chapel for the Evergreen Cemetery that's in Brooklyn, right? Yeah. Oh, it's technically straddles Brooklyn and Queens, but the building is on Brooklyn side of the lot, and we're building a non dimensional space to support memorials, celebrations of life that the cemetery does not have, and is kind of the desperate need of to support their programming in Business.

Atif Z. Qadir  07:59

So in order to do these projects across different typologies, different geographies and scales, you have a team of architects that you have at the firm and also a bunch of collaborators that you often work with. What do you look for in the people that you choose to surround yourself with?

Maxwell Worrell  08:16

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing that's kind of been fun, too, as we build the practice is actually building the team and the collaborators. As you mentioned, I think it's such an important part of our ethos and process. And like, for instance, like we sit around this round table, and our other conference room is also a round table, and the idea is that there is kind of, like no hierarchy in some of the team inner workings, because it's really important for us that it be a team and collaborative space. So we've really focused on building up like diverse backgrounds, both from like education and where people were born and raised. We think that's really important to just bring in a variety of different experiences that I think help make our internal design process that much stronger just by people having much different either education experiences or other kind of life experience. So that's something that's like been really important for us, in terms of, like collaborators, like consultants and other things like we again, have built up a kind of trusted network of people that have been really instrumental to implementing a lot of our projects. And I think it's always fun to be able to call on some known people and be like, Guess what we're doing this project now, what do you think? And to get their thoughts on that. And I think not to say that we're not open to working with others, because I think we're always trying to expand who we're talking to, but I think it's always fun to have, like, some trusted partners too, that you know you're going to work well with and get good results.

Atif Z. Qadir  09:48

Could you name some of those partners that you work with frequently, that you wanted to they may want to mention?

Jejon Yeung  09:53

Structural engineer we have been working a lot with, Silman, particularly Nat Oppenheimer and. Jeff Smith, KPFF is another trusted structural engineer, Andrew Cott that we work with a lot in terms of mechanical engineers. We've worked with Charles Michel almost exclusively on a lot of our residential work. We're now working with Al teary on the Evergreen Cemetery and then also like tapping into local artisans and craftsmen for because we do a lot of interior work as well. There's this company called pianecho, right in the Navy Yard. Is very close to our office, run by John Randall. We met through a client contact during an adapter for use project we did for 77 in Washington, almost 10 years now, and our first project with him was we had salvaged, through necessary demolition, all these Southern Yellow pine timber joists that were no longer in need, but they were so beautiful and in such great shape that we wanted to the client and us, wanted to do something with them, to bring life to it and extend life to it. So we designed a conference room table and a bench with that material. That process was very collaborative with them. He's like an amazing woodworker, and came out with this joinery technique that didn't require any adhesives or fasteners in being inspired from a lot of Japanese joinery methodologies. Since that project, we've done a lot of other one off furniture pieces, taking materials from the exact site that we're doing the project, and then transforming it and reinserting and it's kind of nice to bring same physical material back into the same place it was in a different shape, and having another lifetime, hopefully to exist there.

Atif Z. Qadir  11:50

When you apply those ideas to different projects, say, for example, like the studio bar, and that's where it seems like the magic happens. So let's talk about the studio barn project. So it's a renovation and conversion of a historic barn in Westerly Rhode Island. So tell us about the origin of this project.

Maxwell Worrell  12:10

This project came about from the artists and owners of the property are Kara Walker and Ari Markopoulos. We like to jump mentioned the 77 Washington project that we did. We actually did a studio space for her in that building that we completed back in would have been like 2020 20 that was largely like a reworking of a warehouse space into a working artist studio for her that comprised of the space is kind of long and narrow, and narrow, and so we ended up with this, like bookend strategy of like two plywood volumes that housed either a mezzanine painting space or administrative space on the other side. And then the pandemic happened, and I think, as a lot of people did during that time, people were looking for outlets outside of the city, and they stumbled on a property in Rhode Island that had this existing barn on it. And as you noted, it was an old horse stable that, while it looked old, it was rather it was kind of built in the 80s, maybe to but to look old. So it had this kind of like weird pastiche of like everybody thought it was old, but it wasn't. 

Maxwell Worrell  13:22

So when they first contacted us, they were interested in finding ways to use this barn as a studio space, and so we engaged with them in early 2021 and started designing at that time, almost like a ground up studio space for them with a little bit of a larger footprint. The idea is that we would try to use salvage some of the existing footprint of the existing barn, but actually build new and build a little bit bigger. And so we went through this entire design process with them and executed a full document of construction documents, and sent it out to bid, and the numbers came back kind of wildly expensive. And it forced everybody to pause and kind of rethink and recalibrate what the needs of the space were. And I think it was in that moment that they kept going back to this property and just looking at the barn, you know, you can see it from the house. And I think they were looking at and being like, we have this structure, we have to be able to do something. So they called us back and we went to the site, and they're like, surely, there's something we can do with this. And I think we were really excited at that time to start to rethink, like, okay, what can we do here to really transform this barn and not make it look like a barn, like, really transform it into something that was contemporary, that was unique to them, but then also, like, solve for all their unique needs. Of like, making art within this space, but also making it an extension of their domestic life. There in Rhode Island. 

Jejon Yeung  14:59

There was a period. Where the first version of the project died, maybe, I don't know, like four or five months, and when we were re engaged to reset and start that process over again. We kind of look back at our very, very first presentation, and we actually had a variety of sketches that we typically do at the onset that show very different avenues that the project could take. And one of them actually was more of a an adaptive reuse version of it. I think through our conversations the first round, we kind of reached an impasse and went the road of, let's go big and bold and see what happens. I think when we had those numbers that were much more construction numbers that came back from the first version. I think I remember them saying something like, I don't think this is going to be our final studio, and our lifestyles are such that we're still going back between Rhode Island and the city and and I think that's the scale the building and the space for us to make art needs to be appropriate to that it was almost returning back to design meeting number one, and then taking that road down which we were very excited about. I think in the end, both studio members that worked on it and ourselves end up liking the project a lot more because it has this. Obviously it's much more adaptive forward, because we're reusing much of the existing structure, but it has a character and layering of history that we wouldn't have been able to preserve and captured had we taken the building down to its foundation. So then the challenges was the existing barn needed some foundation work, because it was formerly a horse carriage, so it had like dirt that came into the space that needed to be filled. We had to upgrade the infrastructure for bathrooms and plumbing, but also it was so light challenge, like daylight challenge, so we needed to look at opportunities to carve into the existing envelope to both bring height for the utility of pinning up really, really tall pieces, but also bringing in light to the upstairs and downstairs, so that you're primarily working with natural light and relying very little on electric lighting this property.

Atif Z. Qadir  17:22

Initially, you're talked about the path one, and then going back to path two, which is taking another look at this existing barn. So talking about the design prompt, or the way that the artists engage with you, at first, what is it that they said that they wanted? 

Maxwell Worrell  17:37

You know, it was really an extension to make art. Kara primarily paints and draws at Ari is a photographer. So I think also, like working within those different like needs for each artist were important. So for us, like when we went to the barn and started to understand both, it's like space and proportion, it was really important to us to create a variety of spaces. And it wasn't about like, okay, that's going to be Kara's side and that's Ari's side. There was no delineation of, like, a hard line in the sand. The idea was that, and we always had this kind of diagram that we were playing with, like, of a seesaw, you know, this idea of, like, a balance equilibrium that happens when two people are in the space that it might be a more dynamic experience. What we did was basically, like, ju John said, was the idea of, like, carving and adding double height spaces to create both, like, really important natural light to come in, but also a variety of spaces so that she could do, pin up and, like, draw on these really tall, like, almost, you know, 20 foot walls. But then there's also a smaller loft space that when we were there last, you know, they'd use it more of like, kind of a hangout space. So there's like, a little bean bag chair. There's kind of like, it's more casual up there. There's kind of a built in desk as well. So there's like, then idea of like, that's maybe more like quiet hangout space, and the actual work and production of art happens on the lower level. And then we also have these series of really large sliding doors and windows that open out to both sides, both north and south, with screens. And there's a really large wood deck that extends out the full length of the studio barn. We were really drawn to. 

Maxwell Worrell  19:23

There's some, like, really amazing images from the 60s of the haystack Mountain College of people just working out on these, like, wood decks. And so we were really, and they were really excited about this too, about the idea of, like, if it's a nice day, open these doors out, you're out working in the field. Basically, our job was to find the way that this barn could be a vessel for them to work in a myriad of different ways. Hopefully they would call us in a year from now and be like, you won't believe where we just painted this painting or something, because I think there's, there's just kind of these, like nooks and crannies that are kind of fun. Discover. I think it was also through designing and conversation with them, US discovering there's not this strong delineation of art making in their lives and being in sense that it's parceled off and like, this is where we do this, and this is where we do this, less of like kind of nine to five, Monday to Friday. It's very much kind of intertwined in their domestic rituals. You know, we had discussions of like, Oh, what's this loft gonna be used for? They're like, I don't know. Maybe we just hang out or play music. But also, like, we designed an outdoor shower in the rear deck, and Kara told us through her the last show that she made there, that she had this morning ritual of coming and bathing outside because

Jejon Yeung  20:41

it was so nice to be out in nature, and then that cathartic routine of going into the studio and then making work there, that was what was really interesting. And on top that, they're both artists, and they share that space together, it's almost like an extension of their home, rather than a strictly studio space for art making,

Atif Z. Qadir  21:01

And any particular opportunities that you saw that were unexpected as you guys explored the building?

Maxwell Worrell  21:07

The one thing that we were really excited about was, like, keeping all of the existing rafters and so working within that so it's all exposed, celebrated in its kind of nature of just two by what, two by 10, very standard American framing of a barn. And then within that, we inserted these more kind of plywood wrapped volumes. There's a plywood stair that leads up to the loft. So there was an idea of like, keep the core and the shell as this existing artifact, and then we inserted these more, like, kind of deliberate, crisp plywood volumes. So there's this kind of play of like, which you'll hear probably more about in our other projects. It's like something that we're really interested in terms of, like, adaptive reuse, is this language of like, new and old, and so for us, that was, like, a really exciting opportunity to just let the barn shell read as this really kind of raw existing, kind of muted, just like a raw space that then within we're just doing these more deliberate investigations.

Jejon Yeung  22:15

Yeah, and also the fact that it was we wanted The structure to be exposed. And so what that necessitated was, I mean, we had to insulate the building to make it habitable or comfortable in the winter and in the summer, to keep it cool inside. So all the insulation is actually on the outside of the roof to allow the rafters to be exposed. And then there are moments where we were we put in Skylights to bring in a little bit more natural light. And those skylights, traditionally, you would just frame an opening and remove the joists, but we kept it there almost as a baffle, so that you're aware that the structure is still there and light comes through it. And it was a nice kind of way to think about light coming through the structure in multiple forms. So even in the areas throughout where we have electric lighting for the space to be illuminated at night, we use very inexpensive porcelain sockets centered in between each of the joists and rafters, so that whether it's natural light or electric light, it comes through and has a direct kind of correlation dialog with the existing wood frame structure.

Atif Z. Qadir  23:28

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Atif Z. Qadir  24:27

You talked about the problems and the opportunities that you observed when you saw the barn. So could you talk about how you responded to those with your design solution?

Jejon Yeung  24:37

So a lot of it was infrastructural upgrades, even though it was a conceit of a finish to make the barn look like an old thing that was salvaged, it was actually used as our stable. So there was no slab where the or stable quarters were, and we had to bring that in and create that structure, which ended up necessitating a whole new slab. Up throughout, and then we had to fully insulate the walls, upgrade the envelope to be very, very watertight, because the existing structure was done in such a way it was more like a shed, and it was very porous. So obviously there's important pieces being made there, so it has to be protected, and then keeping out the elements, and then the barn was very daylight challenge. It had very little windows and openings doing the envelope at the same time of upgrading it to really connect visually with the landscape surrounding and also bring in that experience to essentially heighten the awareness of the surrounding and the awareness of the history of the building is a layer of experience that's in removable from that space, and hopefully, you know, impacts the way they think and make art in that place.

Atif Z. Qadir  25:52

So a big feature of the solution that you came up with were the simple and clean materials that you chose. So that would be the asphalt and the plywood. Could you talk about how you use relatively everyday, inexpensive materials in such a creative way to make this such an eye catching and iconic space?

Jejon Yeung  26:10

So it was made and built in the 80s to look much older than it is, with like kind of salvaged lumber, and it's actually like faux paint patina to make it look like it'd have weathered. So it wasn't actually weathered, actually weathered. And the roof shingles were asphalt, which obviously is, was it historic? Wasn't historic. I think the cupola that we did say because they liked it very much. I mean, it's kind of adjacent to the to the building. Now, sure that was probably salvaged somewhere and put on top, but if you look at the silhouette of the barn, it's done in a way to also mimic ad hoc lean to barns that have been aggregated and added over time. Like it's not fully symmetrical. It has this jog on one side and on the other side, it's a different dimension altogether. But that's all intentional, because it was all built at once. The foundation was poured all at once. So we had a lot of conversations with our and Carrie about how the form of it stripped down has this kind of peculiar shape, and almost wanting to play that up more. And by adding this very large Dormer, it made the shape even more unusual, turning the barn, kind of preserving the silhouette of the barn from one side, but on the backside, it had this almost like machine form and shape. And then I think we talked a lot about how to abstract the form and preserve it. 

Jejon Yeung  27:41

And so came to we studied a lot of material options that we kind of revisited from the first version of the project, and went back to this asphalt sheets that are typically only used for roof surfaces. And we were like, why not? It's waterproof, it's inexpensive. Why not wrap the whole thing and including the walls? This necessitated, like removing of the eaves so that the sheets can continuously wrap down vertical surfaces. And then what's nice about it, it almost has this skin like quality, where it telegraphs all the layering, because there's substrates that you have to lay on in order for it to adhere to the existing sheathing. All that registers and Telegraphs to the surface, because it is like, almost like a fabric. And then when daylight hits at different angles, it really activates, and even the sun can heat it up, and it could wrinkle in some locations by expansion and contraction. So it's almost like this living skin that we put on that unifies it all in one kind of singular tone and material, preserving wrapping its history so that it's still there and President and then the memory of the space.

Maxwell Worrell  28:58

Yeah, I think you know, when we first started looking at the barn like you Don mentioned, we were trying to find ways of like making it unique contemporary, but also like solving for what were some real, real budget constraints. And so we started researching different ways of cladding. You know, a lot of the earlier schemes were showing a more traditional like metal roof with wood cladding on the siding. And there was something it felt a little off. And so we kind of stepped back, and we were looking into products that could be both vertical surfaces and horizontal surfaces, and landed on these rolls of asphalt sheet that are very inexpensive, produced and, you know, like readily available, which was also another thing that we were cognizant of, and it comes in a number of different colors that has this really great texture. You know, from afar, it reads super monolithic. And then you get up and you start to read the overlapping of these different roles, and the kind of layering that we. Talking about. But then even closer, it has this, like, really kind of rough texture to it. That's quite nice. So we were really drawn to that. And then inside, we poured this new concrete slab. So we had this working concrete slab that, obviously, like a lot of museums and galleries, have similar floors. 

Maxwell Worrell  30:17

And then we were similarly trying to find a material that we could build, that could do both, like mill work, build stairs, build cabinets out of like and all of that points towards plywood. And I think there's an obvious like, tie in to Donald Judd and other like artists that then make these kind of really beautiful plywood objects. And so we're definitely not averse to trying our hand at making our own beautiful plywood objects. So we end up kind of deploying that. And then the other, the other material that's really prevalent throughout the studio is Homa sote, which is another like sheet, good material that just goes up on the walls. We decided the initial design was that it would be painted, but as it went up, there's these really beautiful, like, pencil lines that mark out where all the screws are. So they lined up the screws, really beautiful. And Ari walked in there was like, we have to keep this. It's so perfect. And it's like unfinished nature. And so that ended up being this really kind of nice, again, super honest. You read the like, and luckily they did a really nice job, like with the pencil lines and the screw alignment. So it has, like, all of the hallmarks of, like, every material on the project you could go buy at Lowe's or Home Depot. And I think for us, it's like finding ways to deploy that in really unique and creative ways is kind of where for us, the excitement and like the magic happens

Atif Z. Qadir  31:47

Amazing. So this episode is sponsored by Lowe's, and feel free to use the discount code. Okay, so what I love is you mentioned Donald Judd and the interaction between art and inspiration to the architecture you produce. Isn't the first time that you've been able to meld these two interests of yours together. So you have a property in upstate New York that was inspired by work by Michael Heizer, and then also one on Long Island that you designed that was inspired by Sol LeWitt sculptures. Could you briefly tell us about those two properties as well the Sol LeWitt project?

Jejon Yeung  32:19

Not every day that a client comes to you and asks for a glass house, and this site was not a huge site, but it was on a bluff, looking overlooking gardeners Bay at the end of Long Island, but they also wanted a two story glass house, and we quickly started Looking at different forms, almost like patterns of structure that would help as a kind of a starting point to design the structure and shape of the project. And came across sculptures, one particular in Storm King, and had this kind of epiphany of like, oh, we could kind of build upon this lattice where it's more of an expression of a grid rather than transparency itself. And even though these clients wanted a glass house with like, uninterrupted views towards the water, they had kind of normal tendencies of privacy. And they were like, well, I don't want to be on display to all my neighbors, and I don't like glass in these spaces and towards the roads, so we had to come up with a system that allowed for harmonious layout of both transparent opacity. So the lattice, like solo at sculpture allowed us to be playful and insert and infill those grids where we needed to for privacy and open it up where it does for view and light. 

Maxwell Worrell  33:48

And the ridge house project that you mentioned, that's the one that we were inspired by the Michael Heizer double negative that there's two structures on that property. There's a main house and a barn, and this connection between them that we call the trench walk. And that's really this moment where the main house, Ridge house, sits on top of the ridge, this really beautiful shale ridge. And so there was an idea of having a real connection to the landscape, where you're actually the client was like wanting ways to like, be in the earth. And so we have it. We came up with this idea of a trench walk where the connection between those two structures is this moment where you cut through that ridge and you're in this four foot deep trench that really exposes the shale condition. And now we were just back there a couple weeks ago. It's covered in this really beautiful moss. So it has, like, now it has this kind of like softer quality to it. It's one of those moments where it exposes the geological strata and winks to the nature of the landscape that's there. And I think for us it's really important to have for all of these buildings that we do, both outside of the city and even inside the city, is like finding ways to connect. Or to the landscapes or environments in unique and particular ways.

Jejon Yeung  35:04

Architects ourselves, we look at art and sculpture in a certain lens of, Wow, that's such a cool form and compelling shape. Wouldn't it be cool as a building and you can inhabit and go inside of it? We can't help ourselves but to imagine those artists who make those pieces and how they can inform how we think of space and buildings.

Atif Z. Qadir  35:27

So local project did a really beautiful video of that project in upstate, so we'll clue that one in the show notes. So walk us through the studio barn. If our listeners were coming to westerly and were approaching the barn, what would they see? What would that experience be like? And highlight things like the staircase for us.

Maxwell Worrell  35:45

Like we were mentioning, the journey is for us, really like where the whole process starts. So for this particular project, there's a gravel path that leads you from the main house to the barn, and so you kind of step onto the gravel and start to hear the crackle of the gravel as you move. And I think that forces this kind of like exhale moment. And from afar, we've designed a really large sliding barn door that closes off the apertures, so if the barns fully closed down, you approach basically this kind of more like black monolithic objects nestled back into the woods. So as you approach, it starts to unfold in a more like three dimensional manner. And then if you slide open this large sliding door, you would be able to enter into the studio space. And when you enter in, you're in the what is it probably 15 by 30 primary studio art making space, and then in the center is the plywood staircase that doubles both as a bookcase for storage and also hides a utility slop sink on the other side. So it kind of acts as this core that hides there's also a bathroom that's concealed in the plywood as well. So the plywood is is serving as a more functional core to the barn, per the studio space. And then straight out to the north side, you're looking up like these really beautiful old stone walls and a forested landscape that has an outdoor deck out on it as well, with the outdoor shower. And then to the left is more of a that's where you're under the loft space, so it's a little bit lower ceiling height, and that's where Kara has a desk set up for more writing or journaling, sketching. And then, like I mentioned, there's also a bathroom and a slop utility sink down there.

Jejon Yeung  37:41

And then you go upstairs, and there's this lofted space. The stair, kind of runs adjacent with the double eyed space that expresses itself out on the exterior as a large dormer with Windows on two sides and a skylight above. There's no real acoustic separation between the upstairs and downstairs. In the loft space, the air is shared, sound is shared, the light is shared. We think of it as kind of a continuum of an experience. But what's nice from the loft space there is this window that we relocated at the front facade that looks directly onto these protected wetlands that are adjacent to the property. And so we really wanted a sense of the surrounding landscape to be inseparable from the experience of inhabiting that space, so that it becomes more of a unique place to both be in, to live in, and also to make work

Atif Z. Qadir  38:37

Amazing. So I want to go a little bit bigger picture now. So we focused on this area of expertise that we've highlighted through the studio born project that's adaptive reuse. And we've talked about other projects that you've worked on that are adaptive reuse projects. So what do you see as common challenges across all of these projects that you've worked on?

Jejon Yeung  38:56

The most challenging thing that we try to balance, and maybe it's a self imposed challenge is balancing kind of specificity and universality. We don't think of our intervention being the last thing that happens. The most sustainable mission with adapting a building to a new function or preserving it longer is that it lasts, hopefully for another generation or a few years. And so I think the most successful version of that project is one day somebody taking that space when we're long gone and when the client is long gone, and imagining some other use for it that's appropriate for future times. And so a lot of that is kind of thinking about preserving what has already lasted so long, and usually that is the structure, and the way people used to construct buildings, and how, if it's usually heavy timber or masonry, they have lasted so long. So it's the priority to not just make. Maintain that and preserve it, but also to celebrate it and highlight that as an existing texture and fabric in which to juxtapose newer elements and so that the new and old can be harmonious. So we like to think of adaptive reuse as a means to be readapted in the future. And so suddenly go to lots of efforts to make it highly, highly specific and support specific functions that the client asks us to design towards, but maybe can be undone or layered on in the future, so that it has a new life down the road.

Atif Z. Qadir  40:36

So then, as you're looking across these projects, given the intent or those common challenges that you see across them. What are some of the secrets that you have put together and come to understand to do a success successful adaptive reuse? Because from the developers perspective, adaptive reuse can be this never ending money pit that ends up being more expensive than new construction. So there has to be a way to make these make sense. Or from the designer's perspective, tell me what you've learned? 

Maxwell Worrell  41:02

Yeah, I mean, I think that's what we try to appreciate, is that it's oftentimes not maybe the most cost effective way of building to go in and try to reuse what's there. But I think from our standpoint, and I think Ji John highlighted a little bit here earlier, the idea of like, going in and really trying to assess with a keen eye, like what is important and salvageable. Here in our particular design ethos, we're really interested in kind of stripping out the extraneous and highlighting the essential. And so that becomes kind of like a marching order for like how to because not everything can or should be saved, right? Because we're we're adapting these projects to be to take on a new use, and so like steps not to free something in time. Yeah, exactly. And so I think we're not like preservationist. We're not trying to, like restore necessarily, but I think trying to go through and highlight, and like jujun said, it's oftentimes the structure, but also we're usually like adapting that or modifying that structure to accommodate new needs, and so there's that tension that plays out there nicely as well. For us, the secret lies in finding that right balance between new and old, and that's always like the exciting moment, and maybe for developers, it's also the scary moment, because totally there's a little bit of uncertainty in that. And I think uncertainty is always scary, but I think if done right, you're doing very little to what's there, and then what you are inserting is very economical, so you're building,

Jejon Yeung  42:40

the things that you're inserting are the inexpensive things, because the thing you're preserving is of value. And I think ultimately, I talked about it being important to balance new and old and allowing history in the past and the present to coexist in harmony as a space, if done correctly, I think identifying the good bones and preserving the structure that is usually the thing that is of value, and then the new things that you're inserting are very economical and inexpensive to build, so that harmony of new and old can exist and be a successful project, that You're not spending a ton of money on. The canal projects was one of our only projects where we came under budget and within schedule, which is unusual

Atif Z. Qadir  43:31

From my experience as a developer, as a man of properties. It's whatever your budget or your schedule is when it comes to historic redevelopment, just triple both of them, and you'll be fine. And this case impressive. You came in 1/3 of the time that you should have been.

Jejon Yeung  43:48

Yeah. And I think, you know, it doesn't play out for every kind of project typology. It happens that these artists spaces or art showing spaces and gallery that we worked on could really embrace the rawness of patina, which isn't always appropriate for certain types of development and projects. 

Atif Z. Qadir  44:07

Yeah. So those feel like three great nuggets for listeners to chew on. So tell me what you are looking for more of right now.

Maxwell Worrell  44:15

We're really interested in creative clients that are looking for exciting opportunities of existing buildings in urban spaces or other environments, that are looking for ways to engage you know, both like the public and the city at large, I think, you know, we spend a lot of time walking around New York and Brooklyn, and feel like there's so many kind of underutilized spaces, buildings or opportunities that just could be really great spaces for the public and for culture and further expansion of like finding ways to kind of engage the city. And so we're excited to continue that. And. Hopefully some people find us at Oral young.

Atif Z. Qadir  45:04

So the email address is Hello at Oral young.com and if the person that owns the empty lot at Hudson and Houston, the northeast corner of that intersection that is just screaming for something amazing, if you're the owner, you're listening, make sure to email them hello at Oral young.com it'll do something good. There. We're at the end of our time. So thank you so much for being here with us. Jejon and Max. I really appreciate it. 

Maxwell Worrell  45:28

Thank you so much. 

Atif Z. Qadir  45:31

I'm Atif Qadir, and thanks for joining me on American Building. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on your favorite listing app and leave a rating and review. America's housing crisis is one of our greatest challenges. But what are the real solutions? Hear from the developers and other industry experts driving meaningful change. Get our exclusive guide housing in America, eight ways we can solve our way out of a crisis at Americanbuildingpodcast.com.