Atif Z. Qadir 00:03
Welcome to American Building. I'm your host Atif Qadir. Join me as we explore the skylines and strip malls, the crosswalks and rail crossings, the balconies, the buildings and the burrows shaping the next generation of real estate. Let's build common ground.
Atif Z. Qadir 00:22
Today’s guests are Austin Crowley and Robert Blaser of Michael Graves Architecture & Design. Austin is a returning guest and longtime member of the MGAD team; you may remember him from our Next Gen conversation where he talked about getting started in design. Robert is a senior leader at the firm who oversees many of MGAD’s larger civic engagements and client relationships. Michael Graves Architecture & Design is a multi-disciplinary studio with deep roots in product and built work and is the sponsor of this podcast. For this episode we focus on Cutler Bay Legacy Park, a community-forward municipal complex and coastal public-realm project in Cutler Bay, Florida. The project rethinks how a town center and waterfront public space can support community life while addressing resilience, access, and operations. Today we’ll talk about the design moves, the tradeoffs, and what it means for a legacy firm to do meaningful civic work today. Thank you so much for being here with us, Austin and Robert.
Austin Crowley 01:41
Thank you for having us.
Robert Blaser 01:43
Pleasure.
Atif Z. Qadir 01:44
Absolutely. So Austin, great to have you back. So to start off, remind our listeners what first drew you into architecture.
Austin Crowley 01:52
Oh, very good question to kick off here and Atif, thank you again for having us. It's a pleasure and congratulations. This podcast has been widely successful, and I enjoy listening to all the episodes here and all the different perspectives. So let's see what drew me to architecture. I guess, to start, I come from a family of engineers, so it's very much kind of on that track when I was going through school into the math and the science aspect. But you know, there was always something about the creative juice that I just had always being very kind of aware and thoughtful of the environments that I was in, visiting cities, visiting new places, new towns. I was always just conscious of how much can I learn about these new environments, these new cultures that I visit. So there was always this side of I love the engineering aspect, but there was something about the creativity that went into it, that I was really drawn to. And in addition to that, I was always very passionate about the arts, music being one thing instruments and even painting and hand drawing. So when I was graduating, it was, is there a profession I can go into where you sort of balance both of these and voila, architecture was the one. About two days into architecture school. I knew this was exactly the profession for me, and it's been a really amazing ride since there now being at Michael Graves, being able to contribute to some really wonderful, amazing projects around the world, and the way that we ideate, which we'll get into a little bit more in the podcast, you know, has definitely been a wonderful experience, and being able to mentor and now give some of that experience back to new people who come to firm is also a very rewarding experience. So it's been a great journey so far amazing.
Atif Z. Qadir 03:32
So when we last spoke, that was three years ago, so there's been a lot of growth and change in your role since then. Because could you highlight some of those, those changes that have caused your role to evolve over the past couple of years?
Austin Crowley 03:44
Yeah, absolutely. And I would say a lot of that too comes just naturally from the evolution of the firm where we've come over the last few years. It's again, we'll get into more detail later on, but the way that we we convey storytelling and imagination into all the designs that we create for our clients, has been something that, you know, has definitely drew me to this company, and something that's Robert and I have have contributed a lot to over a lot of different project varieties, different scales, different project types, but over the last few years, going in a direction where we are doing that hybrid of the international work versus the domestic work in the US, and you know, every client, every project, has a totally different message that they're looking to convey, getting on the first call with the client, getting to know the stakeholders who are involved with the project, and really kicking off an exciting vision has been something that I've really been passionate about over the last few years.
Atif Z. Qadir 04:38
Robert, can you tell listeners a little bit about your background and how you came to start your career in architecture.
Robert Blaser 04:46
Oh, certainly, Austin discovered his path early. I I'm a little bit more of a late in life type. It's a second career for me. I began my career in aerospace, which is fascinating, very, very project oriented. Added some similarities, but I had the itch. I had the design itch. And let's just say my aspirations were a little more grounded or terrestrial and but so good, but I do it's funny. I think I bring a lot even more so now I bring a lot from my past into what I what I do currently. But again, I think that that itch, or that drive to do something that was a little bit more humanist. And not only was, you know, architecture a perfect path for me, but going to Michael Graves was a perfect path in that Michael is, you know, among, or perhaps the most humanist architect I had ever encountered. And so just the personal touch, the way people engage with work, the experiential quality and imaginative quality, what he does was really a lore for me. And what kind of creativity could we bring to the table based on those ideals? I mean, you think of Michael with, you know, from the Alessi teakettle and the whimsy of the bird on the spout to other work that he's done that, you know, has just sort of rocked the world of architecture. I think it's been a fascinating path here to be part of that, and then to take it into this new 2.0 of us, where we take that imagination in whole new ways, and some of the work we're doing throughout the world that really does harken to what those ideals were. So, I mean, I think, you know, it's, it's taking that project related side, and even, you know, of problem solving that I grew up with in that first career, my first first five years of my adult life, and morphing that with something much more, more creative and imaginative. And I think the tandem of the two really does, I don't know, trying to make it a secret sauce of some sort, but, but the work Austin and I are doing together in this studio, I think, is very complimentary. And we look forward to opportunities like we're talking about today, that we have, but many other future opportunities as well that really stem from capturing the why of a project, the imaginative and storytelling quality of a project that really gives it that extra.
Atif Z. Qadir 07:08
So Austin mentioned in terms of his day to day things like client services and mentoring younger architects. Could you explain what the what your focus is typically on a day to day, if there is a typical day to day, in terms of of a week?
Robert Blaser 07:24
Day to day for me is, is very much about like the conductor in the orchestra, than the than lead violin or what have you. I think I'm finding more and more that we can really create a dialog here and and a discussion leading that discussion in many respects, rather than, you know, top down design in many respects. So I think so there's very much a mentorship involved in that. It's like capturing the heart of the essence of what we're trying to do without trying to be prescriptive, is a big thing. I talk a lot about, call it cross generational design. I think you know, to the fact that we can capture the voice of the young the old, and then across. It's not just cross generational it's across, you know, gender and culture and things like that. But I think what people miss often is is the generational differences that we have and honestly that we share. It's an asset to design. So I think, you know, when we make it a conversation, less of a master apprentice, but there's definitely, you definitely have to guide. There's definitely a mentorship. But the mentorship isn't, I mean, yes, it is detailing. It does involve aspects like that, but I see it far beyond that. I think it's more embracing the differences, and again, cross culture and youth and harvesting that, I think, in ways that could be really unique. I think that's what enables us to be truly innovative. So I mean, it's definitely more of a Realm like that, but it also allows me to expand myself in many ways and grow because I could touch more in that role than I can if I'm really getting into the minutia of every single project. So the day to day does involve that kind of mentorship. In a way. It's like, you know, there's, I feel like I have a foot in academia, even though I don't.
Atif Z. Qadir 09:16
I want to highlight the metaphor, the very apt metaphor that you gave, which was the conductor of an orchestra, and the show has had many designers on, as well as many developers. And Samer henini, who's a developer in New Jersey, in response to this idea of like, what, what's the role of a developer? Like, what's your day to day? Like, he chose a different metaphor, which was the ringleader of a service, which I think makes a lot more sense when it comes to the context of a real estate a little bit, but I totally appreciate for what we described as well, but you highlighted something really important, which was being able to capture and build on the experiences. Is and different perspectives of people, perhaps across generations and across skill sets. As a leader of the firm, what are your thoughts and priorities on building a team for a particular project that cuts across those different things to serve a client like we'll talk about for the Cutler Bay project?
Robert Blaser 10:20
Well, from my perspective, building a team like that, I mean, there are two ways to look at the whole design and deliverables process. I mean, do you build a team that where you, you know, you've got people the early phase that design, and then then they hand it off to people that develop the design, then you hand it off to a CA group, and you lose that continuity. It's, it's, you're embracing skill sets. Perhaps you may look at it there as as that, as being efficient in terms of how you develop certain levels of expert areas of expertise. But we as a firm really believe in in being involved with the projects start to finish, and while when I, when I build a team, and I take people like Austin, who are you know, or design hotshots and and, and really great early. It doesn't mean he leaves that project that, you know, we won't let him it. I think that design prowess that channels its way through design development, construction, documentation and then, and eventually, in this instance, the CA, it's important to have that, that foothold there. And so I really believe in building a project team as opposed to a deliverables team, if I can put it that way. And so there's a lot of power in that. And I also find that in looking at it and looking at a project in its multiple phases, I think you're taking what you learn from CA, actually makes you a better designer. So I think there's it all comes full circle. So I think, you know, building a team that's going to carry it to fruition is important for me. But in that case, you know, you're marrying people who are might be very great at project management and detail oriented and things like that. And on this project we, we have Kiri working with us, and, you know, it's and she just has this knack. She never misses a trick. You know, that you know. And I think that helps us do what we do, because someone always has their eyes on the road, so that we, as as dreamers, while we're participating in all this process, are free to do so. So I think, you know, it's, it's you do role play a little bit, but I think these roles go for the duration.
Atif Z. Qadir 12:29
So expertise, traditionally has been based on knowledge. So the like the book, kind of learnings that you have, or through classwork, and then experience based on having done it many times before Austin, in the case of technology becoming more and more embedded within the firm's practices, could you talk about how that has played its role in the evolution of the firm, and how you've played a role in that, and how that might be changing that traditional notion of what expertise is when say Robert's building a team of people together to execute our project?
Austin Crowley 13:04
That's a fantastic question, and one that we're seeing resonate all throughout the AEC profession right now. And I do think this in a big way, ties back to the idea that mentorship goes in both directions. You do have the more experienced professionals here at our firm with years of experience across many different project types and many different, you know, deliverables. And then you do have the Yammer professionals who are coming out of school, and they're saying, here's how we saw AI or used it in school. Here are different ways that we're finding, you know, we can cut out five minutes and make that task take one minute with this new this new tool. So we very much take pride in celebrating the new technology and constantly researching it, looking into new ways that we can integrate it into our design process. And my goodness, I would say, over the last two or three years, the amount of new tools that we have integrated into our day to day workflow. Some of those are AI, some of those are just pure technology that has been evolving over the last few years. We've come a tremendous way, not only boosting our design storytelling process and how we create designs and convey designs to clients, but also to Robert's point in the production side, the way we use Revit, the way we document buildings and create the documentation. So it's been really exciting to see. And again, it's promoting that mentorship in both directions, where more experienced folks are learning from younger professionals, and both need to work together to make sure that we're working towards the same goal.
Atif Z. Qadir 14:35
Amazing. So speaking of working together on an amazing project, let's start talking about Cutler Bay. Robert, could you give us a overview of the Cutler Bay legacy park, so where it is, who the client is, the program and sort of the background to get people situate?
Robert Blaser 14:53
Well, the client is a municipality of Cutler Bay, which is a community south of Miami. Suburban Miami, you might say, and we are partnered with salts Michelson architecture, so SMA, and they're located in Fort Lauderdale, actually heard of this project through them and created this partnership because they wanted to bring a design energy to this project, because they knew they understood that they were looking for with the legacy Park, with this, this campus, they wanted something that was unique, highly imaginative, and I think, you know, and it was led by a mayor that was very idealistic. And I think that's the type of client we cater well to, because we like to tell stories. We like to capture that essence, that why they want to do a project in what we do. And now that can be challenging, because it's not prescriptive design on one hand, but I think that's where that's our forte. So I think in really trying to build that energy and that excitement is is what serves us well. So some years back, I remember that, you know, we went to the interview process, and we came with a story, and we came with even just what we call teaser renderings and concepts of how the park could be an experience in tandem with a municipal hall and municipal campus in many ways, we even came up with Ideas for a band shell experience so that was integrated with the building, so the buildings could participate in and it creates, you know, an amphitheater experience. And and looking at it beyond just, you know, park grounds and municipal building like you may typically see, so that integrated approach was was important to us, and sort of our secret sauce, and really, and that's where, you know, Austin really delivered, you know, he as a designer of this project. So, you know, looking at it at at a high level, in that RFP stage. But then, you know, at the pond award, they saw that we could do something that was idealistic, and we built, we built a level of excitement and a dialog. I think that was pretty powerful. That landed us the job ultimately. But I think, you know, continuing to deliver on that notion was our success thereafter.
Austin Crowley 17:10
It was a phenomenal experience, and we're we were lucky to be joined again by Saltz Michelson architects out of Fort Lauderdale. They brought a lot of the kind of local experience to the team, which was fantastic, paired with us with more of that storytelling kind of the design architect role. And then we were also joined by EDSA. They're a fantastic landscape design firm out of Fort Lauderdale that joined us during the competition. So being able to work as sort of an external team that brought different experience pieces to the table. Was fantastic as we crafted that storyline for for the initial competition.
Atif Z. Qadir 17:47
So you described this was a RFP based competition. What were the main things the client, the municipality, wanted to accomplish with this project?
Austin Crowley 17:58
Yeah, so the town was very passionate about this project. It's the vision of it has been in the works for quite a few years before we even got involved into it. But what's really interesting about it is this 16 acre parcel of property is right in the heart of Cutler Bay. So it's right in the heart of this residential community, where the neighbors are so close. I've actually never seen a community that's this tightly knit before. The residents are always, you know, gathering at some event or some festival. It's really remarkable to see and just to get exposed into what that community is and how we can create something that responds to that, that helps these people connect, helps these people celebrate. So originally, when we first looked at that, that 16 acre parcel, we had heard that the town originally had, there were plans in the works for about 400 residential units that would be integrated to that site. And we had then heard from the mayor that, you know, they weren't quite sure that was the right direction. They would much rather hold on to that property and create something that was more of a civic, public oriented project, to be able to give back to the community. So as soon as we heard that, we knew we were kind of right on for the task at hand. What was also very insightful in the RFP proposal was the fact that the town had already reached out to local schools and local students, and asked for a lot of community feedback. So before we knew anything about the project, we were already looking at crayon drawings of what the park should look like. I got you exactly. There were Charettes. There was requests from community members in terms of what they were looking for in a public park. So having that information to already kick off, where we could head with the storyline was tremendous to the success of the project.
Atif Z. Qadir 19:47
So community engagement, you described, given how tight knit this community, was a big part of that process, and so you got a lot of feedback initially on was that during the competition phase that all of that information was provided, or how. Did that start layering in?
Austin Crowley 20:01
Some of it was town led charrettes that were actually pre competition, so they had a lot of data before that point, which, again, was fantastic. You rarely, it's unusual as well. Yes, but then we did after the competition. We did kind of kick off the process with additional community events. I know we went down a couple times, kind of interact, even create charrettes, where residents of the neighborhood would walk in, comment on a few things they were looking for, what they liked, what they didn't like, and we got to come home with kind of live feedback. So that aspect of a project, again, we do projects of all different sectors and all scales, but it's wonderful to see the reaction of the residents were going to be, you know, this is their backyard. This project is where they're going to be walking through, across the street. So making sure you're giving something for everyone and creating something for everyone is definitely the message,
Atif Z. Qadir 20:52
Okay, so I'm really curious, what were the things that people said they wanted to have, didn't want to have, must have, would like to have. What was the array of stuff?
Austin Crowley 21:02
With some of this feedback, you get very specific, which makes it powerful, right? There were people who were talking about nature trails and just having green space was, I think, one of the most prominent comments that we saw throughout the data that we had collected. But there were, you know, some comments such as, is there going to be a band shell that's going to be loud and we live a block away, so we need to make sure it's oriented the right way. You know, as you're doing the initial planning, you're thinking which, which way are these festivals going to be? You know, what's the direction, what's the proximity to the other residences? It was just a really, really great process to be a part of.
Atif Z. Qadir 21:40
So that was a lot of the input on the things that people wanted to have included in the park, another really important consideration, I'm sure, during the competition phase and afterwards, as you were selected and started moving on the design or the constraints that you had on the site. So that would be environmental constraints, any regulatory constraints, oh, yeah, and that thing called budgets, and then any political procedures or processes. So Robert walk us through some of those issues that you guys had at the jump.
Robert Blaser 22:16
We knew of potential issues we going in, but one emerged as a bigger issue, and I'll let Austin explain that more honestly. He has more familiarity with it, but in terms of a environmental mitigation that they had to do on the site that did redirect a lot of the efforts we had wanted to do in tandem with EDSA for the park design. But I'll let Austin field that one.
Austin Crowley 22:40
Yeah. So again, we were, we were moving forward in the in the very early stages of the project, and the town had actually found out that, due to the previous use of the site as a tree nursery, there were quantities of arsenic in the soil. So as we were planning, working with EDSA and creating this park and this Civic complex that would be kind of integrated, very much sustainable and very much a natural approach. We were starting to hear the buzzwords that, you know, some remediation is probably going to be in the future, when it all came down to with the town, you know, again, express the the option that said, this shouldn't be residential units here, this, this should still be a property that we we run, we clean up, and we provide and get back to the community. So in the end, they made the right decision. They're actually just wrapping up. Now, a lot of that remediation work, I believe it's 120,000 tons of potentially contaminated soil has now been removed, and proper clean fill has been brought back to the site for the for the design of the project. So again, the town was passionate, and they really did make the right decision for the community to be able to give this property back to its residents.
Robert Blaser 23:53
And what's interesting is the fact that we got to work on this project ahead of knowing what level of remediation that would be required is, we, we've planned it in such a way that they could phase, you know, they could, as budget allows, later, in subsequent phases, they can come back to a lot of the ideals that we had originally conceived of. But sometimes, you know, if you know about this mitigation, you know, dollars are, are spent there, you don't think of it as holistically anymore, because of, you know, it's, it's, it's something that will be tabled for the future. But no, we're, we're, we're designing it now and executing it, I should say, in a way that will allow for a lot of these enhancements that we had originally proposed to occur later in the life cycle of the park.
Atif Z. Qadir 24:37
And some of the other constraints I'm curious about is the budget and the approval process. So talk to me about those.
Austin Crowley 24:44
Yeah, so starting with the budget the remediation. I mean, there's different grants and there's different ways that the town is exploring to cover some of that budget and find ways the government can help assist with some of the remediation. But to some extent, it did kind of impact. Impacts the budget for the project itself. So we did go through again with the remediation coming a little bit later in the process. We did go through a little bit of a redesign to kind of slightly reduce the scope and slightly reduce, kind of the enhancement of the design. But you know, to the success of everyone involved with the project, we do feel that the design that's going to be built and constructed very much still plays true to that initial storyline that was vetted in the competition and all the experiences that we're going to give back, a community center building with a state of the art pool, a stage, a band shell that will promote festivals and celebrations of all kinds, and also a brand new town hall that'll be the focal point of the park, and kind of the entry gateway. There's nothing being left behind. We've we've been able to keep everything, and it's definitely gonna be an exciting vision for the entire community.
Atif Z. Qadir 25:53
So one of the other things that would be important to be mindful of any design project in Florida is resiliency, environmental risks and hazards related to hurricanes, inclement weather. So what were the issues and the concerns, and then how did you guys address them on this project? Namely, now that you're mentioning or that you've described, that there were buildings as part of the project in addition to the landscaping in the public realm.
Austin Crowley 26:21
Yeah. So just to touch on a couple of those very quickly, there have been some updates to FEMA in terms of flood zones. And Florida is very difficult for for flooding. But we did go, oh, really, I didn't.
Atif Z. Qadir 26:33
I wasn't familiar, aware, crazy.
Austin Crowley 26:35
But yeah, we did. We did go through a lot of back and forth. Our civil engineer on the project is wonderful. So we we did go through a few rounds of compliant to make sure that the elevations for the buildings were proper. One good thing we're fortunate about is the buildings aren't too tall. We're two stories, three stories now at the maximum height, so we're not dealing with any type of skyscraper, anything that that would be more impacted by stronger wind loads, but yes, I mean the facade, materiality, the products that we're using, down to the detailing. Yeah, everything has has a restriction, and that's where it's interesting, being able to get involved with projects that are in different locations, all around the world. It's you're not doing the same thing every day. That's for sure. You're learning about different contexts, different climate patterns, and there's always a different response. You always have to be on your toes. On your toes.
Atif Z. Qadir 27:23
What are some of the materials that you decided to use in the build portion of the project?
Austin Crowley 27:29
Yeah, so I think a good way to segue into that is going back to the storyline that we pitched to kick off the competition and really secure that spot, Cutler Bay, its proximity again, Southern community, Southern to Miami. And in Florida, there's a an old they call it old Cutler trail. It was sort of the first accessible pathway that connected a lot of those communities south of Miami, hundreds of years ago. And currently, the parcel that we're working with is off of old Cutler road. And old Cutler road is really an evolution of the line of where that trail used to run, connecting all those communities. And we were looking at the history of that trail and the character of that trail, and how it meant so much to that area in that region of Florida, in terms of how trade was done, how communities were connected. And when we delved into the history and some of the character of that trail had these wonderful banyan trees that created these lush canopies over the trail, there were these outcroppings of coral rock that had so much character and texture to them. And it was something as if you had no idea where you were in the world. When you look at some of these historic photos, the way the light filtered through these tree canopies created these dynamic patterns on the path and on the trail. And then you look at old Cutler road and how development has kind of come closer to it. You know, a lot of the message we conveyed to that initial competition was, let's celebrate the character of this trail. It with how it means so much to Cutler Bay even becoming, you know, a place on the map, a community itself. So that's what inspired a lot of the materiality that has come true with the architecture and also with the park design. We very much. We're trying to recreate these, these tree canopies, and also the use of coral rock that we're using around planters and EDSA has brilliantly included into some of these planting locations. So you'll see that a lot of the materiality with the buildings and the architecture does try to mimic and tie that story of old Cutler trail into the future of what Cutler Bay strives to be.
Atif Z. Qadir 29:34
I'm also curious about those decisions that you made for the building and then the project overall, how those were influenced by maintenance and operations and how the project will be kept up over time, which is often as you challenge with any types of civic projects. So Robert, could you talk about what the long term vision is of making sure that this is a project that can be maintained? Easily and kind of kept up to the design that you initially lay out.
Robert Blaser 30:05
Oh, so on the maintenance side, I think it's you always look at when you design, your design for longevity and experience, right? So when you take maintenance there, obviously the maintenance is there is required to preserve the longevity, and yet, with the experience, how do you hide it? I think you know. And in this instance, we did a lot with try to, sort of try to fabric, fabricating some of the topography of what we do so that we could hide it. We had a berm, a protective berm, where we could hide a lot of the maintenance in a lower level below. Now, I think the projects evolved Austin. You can correct me a little bit where, where we didn't have as much topography manipulation as we we we had originally wanted to do based on some of the budgetary constraints that that manifested later, but, but I think it was always important for us to hide that, yet provide an adequacy that can can preserve the maintenance required for something like this. Because we were not just talking about a park as a landscape to look upon. It was really about it was very active and about festivals. And in many ways that you know, they've had their they're very much a very tight community that has a number of festivals. In fact, when when Austin and Jung went down to to meet with them. It was during one of these events that they participated in. So they got to see it live. So understanding what comes with something like that when you have a band shell, and you mentioned Fourth of July events and things like that, but how can you maintain that and preserve its beauty afterwards yet? Let allow it to be this active, thriving Park, and I invite Austin to add a little bit more to more, maybe the nuances in the specifics of where some of those ideals evolved. But originally it was again about conceal but be adequate.
Atif Z. Qadir 31:56
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Austin Crowley 32:40
Exactly, right? And I think that's a good, a good summary. And I do also just want to, you know, bring up again, teaming with saltsmichelson Architects, who primarily does work in that region. They brought a lot of that technical expertise to the design of products that are durable, products that can be good from a maintenance perspective, and making sure that we're aligning with with the client's expectations.
Atif Z. Qadir 33:04
What are some of those materials that you found out about or learned about that you included in design?
Austin Crowley 33:09
Yeah, I mean, one example is we are doing so the name of the concept is called the veranda for the architectural concept, and that was again derived from the old Cutler trail narrative, but we did some detailing and different options of how we could create these structures that kind of sit out from the building are able to, you know, withstand the the wind impacts that they have. But we looked at different options of steel with aluminum cladding, ways that we can incorporate that wood tone and that wood texture in a creative way, so you get the look, but also so that it can be something that lasts for for quite a long time. We did a lot of kind of product research in that regard. But again, it's, it's been a, you know, having their expertise at the table in all those conversations has been a tremendous value
Atif Z. Qadir 33:57
in the course of the conversation. So far, we've come to learn about the community input, about some of the constraints on the project, about resiliency, about materiality and operations. So Robert, Could you walk us through the project? So when listeners go visit Cutler Bay and they see this beautiful project, what are they seeing and what do they experience as they walk through the project?
Robert Blaser 34:20
When we look at a project and we design a project, we think about that. Think about that journey. And the journey starts with arrival. We often talk about the journey in the way we even relate it to a screenplay or or a movie or stage play in many ways. You know, where, where you know, like you know. Act One, arrival portal, you know. Act Two is more of the immersion, and then the Act Three is the resolution, and what's your memory of what you create there? So I think you know, using story and telling as a backbone to the narrative is always fascinating for us. So, so really, what we saw an opportunity in this so when you arrived. There's a gateway, you know, that's evolved over time. But the idea that there was a portal into from one world to the other, and a lot of this was the gesture of this, as Austin was describing, was based on that the canopy, the tree canopy of the Cutler trail. So we had what is now more of a loggia, but was then a true canopy that crossed from buildings to create that kind of a threshold. So I think that memorable moment is is arriving underneath this and seeing the dappled sunlight on the paving as if you were that sort of park that harkens back to the the old Cutler trail. And then from there you you start to meander, and you see the park, and you see what we would call a collection of experiences. So you've got an entertainment portion and a gathering area, you've got a pool, you've got you could imagine where this is a community destination, and you don't see it as a place to get a dog license alone, okay?
Atif Z. Qadir 35:57
I mean, that's definitely, definitely a, I don't imagine to be very much alone, based on the amount of giberty interaction that that Austin described earlier, but I think the contextualization of public services at a an attractive destination is such a beautiful reset, versus some empty, austere downtown building That's completely out of human scale that's uncomfortable to visit and be at, and just not a place you want to be, sounds like a very different version of what civic engagement with government looks like.
Robert Blaser 36:32
I agree, just thinking you know about the festival quality that we were taking just, just the number of amount of get togethers, and creating the location, a gathering, type of community for that this community was, was important. Those are some of the first images that they shared with us.
Atif Z. Qadir 36:49
What were some of the plants and landscaping elements that were included?
Robert Blaser 36:54
You know, it's, if I could speak even, you know, in this intro moment, it's, it's not just the plants. It's actually how we some of the how the architecture reflected some of the native flora in the in Miami. I don't know how many people know, but the it's there's a very endangered species or forest called these Rockland pines that were once very regional to the Miami region. And they're the tall, thin pine tree with a the, you know, a small canopy on top, very, very resilient species. And they're really going undergoing an effort to preserve the Rockland pines there. But, but the the idea that we take that that species, and we reflect it in the architecture, a lot of the moves that that we're making are use wood, which, you know, you don't see as typically in the in South Florida, but we use it in with a tall order and with this loggia to kind of capture the height of the Rockland pine. So, you know, while we talk about the banyan trees, we talk about things like that, we're also looking at a at other native species in the area as to reflect upon that and how we could implement it in the architecture and and also, now that you're you're with us, so part of the question was, what, what the, what type of flora that and and plant species and such that does EDSA recommend? And again, I was going towards what, how those species and native species could actually influence what we do as architect, architectural designers, more literally do that. Are they using for to create the the atmosphere and the environment of the park.
Austin Crowley 38:32
100% Yeah. And you know shading is critical South Florida, so finding plant species that can accomplish that, but also the sustainability narrative of using as many plantings that are native, reducing the amount of irrigation means that those plants will survive. They'll be hardy. And again, it's it's sort of a it's an interesting dynamic, right? With all the remediation being done, making sure that we're doing the most responsible thing with every plant that touches the property, with every detail, is something that the town has felt very strongly about, and we have as well in terms of the design.
Atif Z. Qadir 39:06
So I want to take a bird's eye perspective. So we've talked about both of your paths to the firm. We've talked about this project, and I want to talk a bit more about the firm, where it's been and where it is and where it's going, because Michael Graves is at a point of really amazing evolution in its growth. So, Robert, how many years have you been at the firm?
Robert Blaser 39:32
Oh, I think it'll be 28 it will be 28 in January.
Atif Z. Qadir 39:35
Okay, so 28 years, that's amazing. Congratulations.
Robert Blaser 39:39
It's almost hard to say how it's been quite a it's been quite a road though.
Atif Z. Qadir 39:44
It's an amazing amount of experience that you have with a firm. So this is a firm that has a very particular, iconic design legacy. And when you look across the origins of the firm, and then the 28 years that you've been there. Or how do you describe that legacy? Like, what is Michael Graves about? You talked about a foundation of humanism. Give us some more color to what that that means for you?
Robert Blaser 40:09
Oh, absolutely. I The humanism, and I also, we also say a legacy of imagination. So humanism and imagination even that, that whimsy and the things that people the elements that people fell in love with, with Michael, if you look at the core of that, in the essence of that, it was humanist. You know, from the just the tangibility of the teakettle and the whimsy of the bird on the tea kettle, like I had alluded to before, even inviting color and whimsy into architectural design in very, very playful ways, is very interesting legacy. Now I differentiate that from a stylistic legacy, that legacy of style that's associated with post modernism. You know, people will look at that as of a time, sure, and how do you? How do you I mean to to, I don't think you pay as much homage to Michael to go and continue stylistic legacy forever. Because, honestly, he didn't. If you look at how Michael's career evolved, it was constantly changing. So I think it's about change for us. So in this 2.0 we're not even married to a style of any sort. It's so it's not about it's about stylistic change or, and, you know, looking at what's unique to a project. Or, you know, doing it, from doing things like the statue of unity to a theological Center here in town. I mean, there, they do not they are stylistically very different anyway. So, but what can we bring to it that is, is highly imaginative. So, so I think, you know, in our two point of bringing that essence of Michael, I think, is a much stronger legacy as we go forward.
Atif Z. Qadir 41:45
So we're at an interesting moment where both Frank Gehry and Robert Stern passed away just for the past couple weeks. Both and those are other architects of that generation, of that era, that have very iconic style perspectives on the way that their portfolio built, work is looked and perceived, which I think is a bit different than Michael's. Could you put Michael in the context of other iconic architects, in terms that style legacy and sort of that design ethos legacy? How do you compare contrast them?
Robert Blaser 42:19
Oh, I mean, a very interesting question. You know, Michael is very, I mean, he definitely looked at traditional design and got playful with it.
Atif Z. Qadir 42:29
You know, in the Portland building is the best example.
Robert Blaser 42:32
Portland Building is a phenomenal example of of a transitional moment in Michael's career. I mean, a launch in in many ways. And, you know, people respond to that in many different ways nowadays, but it was, it rocked the world of architecture. You know, when you were looking at the sterility of a lot of the architecture that happened at that time, and Michael just dove right in and flip that on its on its head. So I think you know, but yet stylistically, you know, to land there, or to sit on that and continue in that way. If you look at how monumental, or, you know, that move was, to do something like then that imaginative process is the legacy that we hold on to. And how does, how does that make its way into, you know, the Saudi Arabia projects like that sit behind me and and other work that we do, I do see, you know, when you look at Robert Stern, for example, it's a little more married toward to tradition and things like that. And even that style may hold a stronger legacy than some of the the more postmodern stylistic gestures that Michael and others had made. So I think you might, I mean, I think they would speak for themselves, but that type of legacy may able to exist in that manner. In many respects, Frank Gehry, I is, you know, another very interesting stylistically. That's, it's, it's obviously Frank Gehry's done some incredibly magical things over the years, and how will that go forward? I can't speak to that as well. I don't know. But certainly I think, you know, the, I think it's, you know, beholden to all of these firms that want to live on, to really look at what's, what's the essence and the core identity of what the founders were trying to capture and and if we could land on that in a very poetic and elegant way.
Atif Z. Qadir 44:25
That's not a copy paste job.
Robert Blaser 44:27
Not it's not a copy paste job whatsoever. And I think you know just that's just important to note, because we're talking about all everyone you mentioned there. We're all innovators. They're all these boundaries. Were innovators. And so to lose innovation in the process, I think would be a loss.
Atif Z. Qadir 44:44
So Austin, one of those two architects so frank here in particular, besides the built work, the one of the important legacies that he offers is the integration of technology within the design process and then the driving of technology. G as a main, main element in design, so particularly the use of engineering software Catia in the design of one of his iconic projects, the Disney Concert Hall. So given that you've had a leadership role within technology and integration at the firm, talk to me about where you Well, first, just give us a few bullet points of what that actually has meant for the firm over the past couple years, and where you see technology playing a role in the continuing definition of what your firm's legacy is going to be?
Austin Crowley 45:30
Yeah, good question. I mean, again, technology, we try to think we're on top of it, and tomorrow I'm gonna wake up and there's gonna be 10 new 10 new tools that we're gonna look to study and try to integrate, right? So it's been tremendous. But the fact that everyone's so enthusiastic about it again, the younger professionals come in and they're telling us what their favorite tools are to use and how we can better our efficiencies. So that part of it, the camaraderie behind the technology and the profession has been, has been great. There's definitely ways where technology can negatively impact the design world. We're seeing that in some other forms of design, but I think again, staying true to the innovation and the DNA of your firm and your brand, and then allowing the technology to be a tool that you're using to tell the story, I think, is where we need to keep that evolution going, at least here at Michael Graves, I will just point out another really successful acquisition that we've gone through was Parallax Team, who leads a lot of our BIM technology integration. So very much. From the side of documentation, from BIM modeling, clash detection, they brought a wonderful new powerhouse, really, to the Michael grapes brand, helping us rev up our BIM templates, even coming up with ways that we can merge different softwares together when we are earlier in the design process to where we become later in the process, how we can make that a much smoother transition in the different technologies that we're using. And yeah and AI is finding its way into each little part of that in different ways. So I just think we need to keep, keep looking into it, keep making sure that we're the master of the tool and we're the storytellers. But some of the stuff that comes out of it is, is super exciting, and I look forward to the next 10 years in the profession. It's, it's going to change drastically.
Robert Blaser 47:21
I'm sure it's interesting to see how it can be used in graphic design and presentation as well, not just literally, in terms of how we interpret or may use it for building rendering and such. And I think what's another legacy of Michael's, if I could add, is just the quality of presentation and and we've always had a graphic design group, and we've, we've even done packaging for many of our products, for example. So I think the, you know, what's the core design philosophy between, how you between? I mean, centered on how you package a product. We also like to package our architectural design that in that way, so giving it a lot of attention, and so using some of this technology, and, you know, really top tier graphic designers to sell our ideation in many ways, is another really strength of our firm, and particularly at those early phases when we're really trying to capture the why of a client.
Austin Crowley 48:17
It's a very good point, and we've done that actually recently, a few times over the last year, which is, how do you format a presentation that that format has never been seen before? Right? You're meeting the goals of the project and what the client's looking for, but the means in which you tell the story and the formatting is the innovation behind how we're crafting the project. Give me an example of what you mean, one project that we worked on over the summer, they had a clear list of deliverables in terms of what they wanted to see. We it was a tight timeline. So we were trying to, you know, really get through it as much as we could, large project, large scale. And what we ended up doing is we conveyed it. We used a lot of different AI tools. We crafted. I can't get too much into specifics on it, but we crafted sort of a hybrid of an animation, and really it was sort of a movie production to tell the story and to capture that. So we went above and beyond in some ways, that was very well received, but the fact that we can get to that much quicker. Now than five years ago, that would have taken 10 times as long we can get to things a lot quicker. So it's helping us to be a little bit more creative as well in our storytelling.
Atif Z. Qadir 49:32
I love that what you've described, because the creativity of a great designer doesn't have to be limited to the building itself. And I think the way that you present it can change that. And what I'm thinking of is, if you are, for example, on this project that we've been discussing, the Cutler Cutler Bay project, the way that the mayor of that city spoke about that project in a an informational video for the. Town as part of a vote that was coming up. There's a lot about that experience and the feeling of being there, and how that allows for humans to or the people live there, to connect to each other. And I think there is something so different when you're able to see a video that is the delivery of that amazing design in advance, as opposed to seeing it in two dimensional space, no matter how good that two dimensional depiction is, the ability to connect to that idea of why something is being built and that humanistic Foundation, which is the ethos of a lot of all of Michael's work, feels like now it's the presentation marrying much better with the intent of the project to begin with. So really, really appreciate that, Austin, don't ask us, you've been here for at the firm for nine years, is that correct?
Austin Crowley 50:49
Coming up on 10 this summer I believe. Yeah.
Atif Z. Qadir 50:52
Okay, so 10, a decade there. What were the values, not the ones that were espoused or on the website? What are the values you observed at the firm when you joined, and how have those evolved over the course of the time that you've been there, and as the firm has continued to grow through acquisitions.
Austin Crowley 51:10
As you mentioned, this firm has has always been a place that coming in as a young, young professional out of school, you could come here, you could ask Anyone a question. It was one of the most approachable groups of people that I've ever worked with in my entire career. Everyone was looking to get you different experience on different projects, get you exposure to, you know, projects all around the world, so you could learn about different cultures. You could see that the day to day of an architect is not the same thing every day. It's something totally different. You're always on your toes. You're always learning again. Over the almost 10 years I've been here, I don't think one day to the next has ever been exactly the same, and that's what I love about the profession. I'm sure Roberts is even crazier his day to day than mine is so continuing that aspect, especially as we grow and as we're spreading our footprint and bringing new, phenomenal voices to the brand of Michael Graves, making sure that we keep that, that very family feeling of the firm, that we're approachable, we're polite to work with, respectful, but also we convey that to clients, right? We never want to go in with an ego of any kind. When we go to presentations with clients, we very much, we try very hard to go in and say, We're inviting you on this journey where we can collaborate as one team, and that's the message that we really try to lean into. And again, having so many new new voices with new expertise as a part of the brand has been a tremendous experience over the last few years. So looking forward to the future, and I'm sure there's, there's a lot in store.
Atif Z. Qadir 52:42
So Robert, I wanted you to add a little more depth and color to what Austin talked about in terms of acquisition. So you mentioned parallax as a technology firm that the Michael Graves has acquired. Could you talk about the depth and breadth of expertise, those those phenomenal voices that Austin was talking about, what firms are now part of the Michael Graves brand. What are some of the the strengths and the skill sets that have really evolved over the course of these acquisitions? So help us understand how that evolution has been driven by by the additions of amazing people.
Robert Blaser 53:13
It's been it's a another. The collaborative quality of working with these other firms has been phenomenal. You know, when I talk about diversity of like we talked about earlier, about diversity of age, cultural diversities, gender diversities, what have you, but the different geographics.
Atif Z. Qadir 53:31
And other one's skill sets?
Robert Blaser 53:32
Another one, but, but geographic and skill sets are diversity completely, and the fact that they grew up or evolved in a different manner than we did is a huge asset. I mean, even just, you know what, we often say, one plus one equals three and and we knew we were growing. We're expanding. We were reaching new markets. I mean, all of that was unknown going in. We didn't know as is, as much is, how the the relationships and the collaborations and learning from one another, how much of that would take place to enhance everything that we do. And if you're talking about firms that that, I mean our marketing strategy used to be the phone will ring, you know, once upon a time with with Michael. And we kind of, you know, and of course, you know, we all know that's that's disappeared even from the from all firms, but learning from firms who do their business development by relationship building, getting out there and their strategies really enhance ours. So you couple a little bit of the name of the cache that you may have with our firm as a Princeton and New York based office with some of these other regions and these other design cultures, that's phenomenal. And you know, we always the other thing too is, you know, we consider ourselves here generalists. I mean, we're the typology is only one component of that. You've got product design, you've got graphic design, a whole number of things. So, so how within a boutiques firm, are you going to have enormous numbers in any one typology? And you're always fighting that, so to go and acquire firms that have some sector expertise. Piece. We're no longer, you know, a mile wide, inch deep. We actually have some depth in our qualifications. So I think merging, you know, generalist design ideation that many of us here bring to the table with some of the sector leadership and expertise is really a secret sauce, if I keep using that word, but I think it's great, and it also feels like being part of a startup. You know, what's it like? What's the day to day and such? And, you know, while my chair hasn't moved more than 15 feet, I feel like I've had 15 different careers right working here. So this that the whole evolution of this firm, including this time of acquisition, has really been a phenomenal road.
Atif Z. Qadir 55:38
So lay it out, how many firms have been acquired, and what are the geographies? Give me a number.
Robert Blaser 55:45
We are about seven now geographies are we've got, formerly, Kollin Altomare on the West Coast, which was great. That was our furthest acquisition. So to have a presence in the LA area and Orange County is great, particularly California. It opens doors, and California markets that are can be harder to get into. We've got a lot in the southeast. So in North Carolina, we've got a few. We have the Charlotte office. We have a Winston Salem office in North Carolina, in the DC area, we actually have the Waldon studio, formerly Walter Waldon Studios. We've got PGN and we had our own office in DC. So pulling all those together in both in DC and Baltimore and that area is a strength of ours.
Atif Z. Qadir 56:29
I just want to briefly add that PGN was a guest on the podcast earlier this year as well, so link in the show notes that episode.
Robert Blaser 56:37
And then we have JCA from Hackensack New Jersey, so, and that's an acquisition that started through partnership, where we were designing some multifamily projects with them up in in North Jersey. So their their ability, their understanding of the locale and that typology, mixed with what the some of the design energy that we bring to the table, was a great relationship that evolved into more than partnership into acquisition so and we're constantly exploring, because we're on this journey towards a towards acquisitions. I often, I think we're about eight or so when you include parallax. And we also have other offices that emanate from the Princeton Office, based on people who have worked for us and gone to either Chicago, Houston, Seattle, for example, which is great. We take some of our our culture, and we move our culture as well as bringing in new cultures. Let's, let's put it that way. So I think it really does open doors for us. And every weekly we get together and have a conversation, we call it leads and needs, but we we just, you know, shout out ideas or contacts and things like that. And inevitably, we have, we find some kind of a connection in that world that really does enhance our marketing ability and reach. And so, I mean, this stories are more than you would imagine. And I think so it's definitely a fun ride. And you know, while it's, you know, it began as perhaps a business strategy really turned into a design evolution as well.
Atif Z. Qadir 58:08
Austin, from your perspective, what are you looking forward to in the company's evolution of the next couple of years?
Austin Crowley 58:15
Well, I would say we've already come and again, when I, when I started it was nine years ago. It was really right after Michael had passed. So I sort of started right in that period when the firm was looking for that, that future of the evolution, and what was kind of the next step. So it's been an amazing journey so far, but I'm excited to now, at this point, be more a part of the mentorship, be more a part of how we're integrating technology and making sure we're we're staying true to everything that's new, it's coming out, and finding ways that we can do things better. I will say, with technology too, what's been interesting is we spoke a lot about how it's used on the design side. It's also being used on the business side, the financial side, so there's a lot of different facets of the technology to keep tabs of. But again, it's every new day is a new, exciting project, and there's so many exciting things happening here. So just excited to keep the momentum going.
Atif Z. Qadir 59:11
And you Robert, what are you looking forward to in the evolution for the next couple of years?
Robert Blaser 59:15
Oh, I think inspiration from the different acquisitions that we acquire, or abilities to even enter into new new typologies. Maybe, you know, we've had some foray into healthcare. Maybe there's that opportunity, for example, where we can bring a lot of the design tenants that we have through hospitality and our generalist architectural realm, bringing that to these other sectors, or or more enhanced sector leadership in some of the typologies that we are in which we already work. I just think that cross pollination of design ideas and bringing like, you know, this imagination and things like that that that is the culture of our firm, even, quite literally, even as an actual design to. People bringing this to the new acquisitions and ways to lift them as they lift us, I think is really what I'm looking forward to.
Atif Z. Qadir 1:00:08
Very nice. So for folks that are interested in coming along for the ride and learning about the evolution the firm, what's the best way for them to stay engaged with you guys?
Robert Blaser 1:00:17
Oh, we could all. We would reach out. You know, we try to be active. We're never as active as we try to be on the social media engagement, things like that, and outreach, I think, you know, follow us. You know, and follow us often, is the message I would say, because we're changing constantly. So I think there's, there are so many stories that we try to catch up with honestly and get out there. We're looking at building our marketing and getting even more bold with that, so we're starting to strategize ways to get out there with outreach, even getting more involved in the AIA and things like that. I just recently gave up a lecture to the an AIA lecture or discussion honestly, and to have those opportunities so people see who we are, and don't necessarily have that retinal burn of what the office once was. I think that level of outreach is imperative for us. So I think getting out there and and focusing on that. And another thing I would add is we're even looking at, you know, we've discovered things. We've have a thriving interiors group, but a lot of people don't, didn't know that Michael Graves does interiors, and you'll learn a little bit more when you talk speak with Julie in the future. But the idea that if we can get out there and pitch our interiors more as an interiors firm than an architect who does interiors, I think, is going to be imperative. So I think outreach like that to not only show how broad we are, but to also show how specialized we are in certain design realms is going to be important to us, so that people understand us in those roles.
Atif Z. Qadir 1:01:48
That's amazing. So you mentioned the role of interiors. So this is the 100th episode of the podcast, and 100 100th episode Part A is this amazing conversation, and 100th episode of Part B is going to be with another amazing team member from the firm, Julie yurasek, and she'll be talking about the St Regis in Cairo, so the American building is getting on a plane and and going abroad for this special a special episode that's part of the 100th episode package, and we'll be able to see now quite an array of breadth and depth, as both Austin and Robert were talking about the firm's past and its present into the future, really looking forward to sharing that episode along with them as a way to celebrate the podcast and celebrate Michael Graves as the amazing sponsor of the podcast as well. So stay tuned for that as well. And I really wanted to say thank you to Austin and Robert for a very thoughtful and very meaningful conversation today. I appreciate your time.
Robert Blaser 1:02:48
Thank you so much, Atif.
Austin Crowley 1:02:50
Thank you, Atif.
Atif Z. Qadir 1:02:55
I'm Atif Qadir, and thanks for joining me on American building. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe on your favorite listing app and leave a rating and review. America's housing crisis is one of our greatest challenges. But what are the real solutions? Hear from the developers and other industry experts driving meaningful change. Get our exclusive guide housing in America, eight ways we can solve our way out of a crisis at americanbuildingpodcast.com.