Megan Luce of Michael Graves Architecture & Design | 1776 On The Green in Morristown | Hospitality With the Client In Mind
Transcript
Announcer 00:06
What goes into making an iconic building in America? What are the stories and who are the people behind the next generation of architecture? If your work touches the real estate industry in any way, or you're just curious about what goes into one of a kind cities and towns all across our country, join us on the American building podcast. In season two, we learn about everything from skyscrapers to single family homes from the famous and soon to be famous designers and developers responsible for them. This season focuses particularly on the pandemic and how our buildings will change in response. Our sponsor is the iconic design firm Michael Graves architecture and design. And now your host award winning architect turned entrepreneur, Atif Qadir, AIA
Atif Qadir 01:04
This is American Building, and I'm your host, Atif Qadir. We are recording from the historic home of world renowned architect Michael Graves in Princeton, New Jersey. Check out this amazing space for yourself at the Michael Graves architecture and design YouTube channel. Now, let's build something. Today our guest is Megan Luce. She is the Senior Director of interior design at Michael Graves architecture and design. She has over 14 years of design experience at the firm and has been a key part of its iconic hospitality projects that includes Sentosa World Resort in Singapore and the Nile cornice in Egypt. She has also worked on offices on homes and restaurants like the one that we'll be talking about today, which is 1776, on the green in Morristown, New Jersey. It's an immersive restaurant, bar and entertainment center. Work started on the project before the pandemic. And Meghan was a key part of transforming the architectural design and decor to accommodate the new sets of constraints that COVID-19 brought to the project. It'll open to the general public in July 2021. But you'll be getting a sneak peek of the project here on the American building podcast. Thank you so much for being here with us, Meghan.
Megan Luce 02:20
Thank you so much for having me.
Atif Qadir 02:22
Good, good. So as you're we've been going so far, you know, it's
Megan Luce 02:24
Monday, we're off and running. That's
Atif Qadir 02:27
true. And Mondays are like Wednesdays are like Fridays during a pandemic. So it's all good. Right? Exactly. So and to our listeners, I just want to give you a heads up that later on this season, we'll be talking to a world renowned architect, Rafeal, pelle, from Pelli, Clarke Kelly, about a New York City building that's known around the world. So you won't be wanting to miss that one. Let's get started out. So your career began in Manhattan doing high end kitchen design for an Italian manufacturer? And what did you learn from that experience? Megan,
Megan Luce 03:00
I learned that every inch counts, one inch can make or break if your oven fits in that cabinet. And so I took that with me throughout my career.
Atif Qadir 03:12
So the Michael Graves offices in Princeton, New Jersey, which is obviously nearby, and also near to Manhattan. Did you want to move to New Jersey? Or what was that what was going on there?
Megan Luce 03:23
Well, Michael Graves architecture had just landed a big job in Singapore, which you mentioned. And it was a resort world. I mean, that was the name of it. But it was a world in itself. And they were going to name one after Michael Graves. And of course, Michael was based in New Jersey. So I wanted to be part of it. And I was lucky enough to be the interior designer in the Princeton Office. And I got to work very closely with Michael to do his hotel, which is just a crash course and learning everything you need to know about Michael Graves and how he designs.
Atif Qadir 04:03
So early on, you had an opportunity to work on those projects that were abroad. And very quickly, you also worked on projects in the United States. What would you say similar to my previous question, what would you say you you learn from those two experiences? And were they very different? Are they are they similar in some ways?
Megan Luce 04:20
Well, getting on a plane for 22 hours is unlike anything I've ever done before.
Atif Qadir 04:27
And that's before COVID, right?
Megan Luce 04:30
You really have to mentally prepare. But Singapore is a lovely country. It really is its own city state. And it's a beautiful country. Number one, extremely clean and the people are so friendly. And so it was a pleasure going there. And then to be part of this world we had just designed. It's fun to be the interior designer because you get to see the end part of the projects while the architects were done visiting, and didn't get to see some with their buildings built at, I got to see, five of the hotels build, I think of six restaurants, and a huge casino, at the time, the largest in Asia. And then many said restaurants, but also a spa, which was really exciting to do. So it was really just quite an experience to have so much going on in one project. And then some of the projects here in the United States, or more, a typical project where it was an office building,
Atif Qadir 05:33
so you weren't working on your blackjack and your poker on those American projects that I got, I think
Megan Luce 05:38
I did just one, one day when the casino finally open to say, I did, because we designed everything from the rugs for custom Michael designs to the chair, so I had to sit in a chair and play one game of Roulette.
Atif Qadir 05:55
Then a bunch of American projects you've worked on. So between all of those, you had an opportunity to get to know, Michael very well, I think there are probably some perceptions people might have of starchitects like Michael Graves, was he like an actual, like normal human being? What was he like? Oh, my
Megan Luce 06:12
God? Yes, yes. And I'm so honored and glad I got to meet him and work with him so closely. He wasn't normal human being to the point where he could have done anything he wanted to those buildings that he designed. But he really asked the question, would someone be comfortable here is the scale proportionate to what is going on in the space. And that's just so interesting. He could have done anything. But he chose to make sure it was always comfortable for the end user and I, I loved that about him, really focusing on the person using using it.
Atif Qadir 06:51
I think that's a core concept of whether you're an architectural designer or a developer to be focusing on the person using it not on yourself. That's a really, really good point that you brought up. And I think the other thing that's really telling is we often focus with very famous individuals or very famous architects about what they're really good at, are there certain things that Michael struggled at, in this process of creating these amazing buildings.
Megan Luce 07:15
If he did struggle, he never showed it, nothing was impossible for him. There was always a way to figure something out. So if he struggled, it was just part of his natural process. And I, I didn't notice a struggle, I just noticed creative ideas constantly flowing from him. And it was fun to be around him when he designed who's such a positive person. It was a great experience. Hering.
Atif Qadir 07:45
Awesome, that sounds like a terrific opportunity. So let's talk about the project 1776. So describe the scope and layout of 1776 on the grid.
Megan Luce 07:57
Sure. When the owners came to us, they had the idea of a bar, and a restaurant, and a top golf, which I only heard of the top golf that were outside, and large fields where you hit balls, obviously, this, I said, how are they going to fit this in this inside a building. And we learned later that Top Golf has created a virtual simulated golf course. And so you can do it inside in the rain, have parties. So it was really interesting, because I had, you know, a challenge to learn something new that I didn't at first understand. So what was immersive is that we wanted to create multiple experiences, not a division of virtual golf and dining. So as you progress through the space, the very front is very active, that's where the bar is, the lighting plays a big part, I think in the design of this project, the lighting in the front part where the bar is where everything is active is much more playful, bright, varying heights, and it's very active, which is part of what is happening there. So as you progress through the space, we have a much calmer restaurant dining experience. And then you move on to a beautiful wine tasting room, and then eventually move on to the top golf, which has a beautiful segue into the next room. And what we wanted to do was really prepare, not prepare anyone but we wanted to design so that people would keep coming back they would have a different experience the first time they came, and then they would sit somewhere else and be transported to the tasting room has this wonderful forest, wall covering and mystical lights. So really just keep people coming back not only for the design, but the food the experience and And just to have a nice place to be,
Atif Qadir 10:02
there's a bunch of really good things there that I want to I want to dig into. So you had mentioned that, that Michael Graves the focus that he had, and the focus that the firm has is on the users in the design, would it be correct to say that the focus in this particular instance was, as you described towards the end that it was about making people comfortable, excited, really enjoying their time there and to be able to want to come back again and again, to experience different things. Is that correct?
Megan Luce 10:30
Absolutely. We definitely wanted I mean, also for our clients, we wanted them not just to have a one and done restaurant, they tried the food and didn't come back. I mean, they'll come back for the food, of course, but we wanted them to also just have an experience that Oh, next time I want to sit in that back room that looks really interesting and dark and moody, or next time I want to sit at the bar and the high top and see what's going on. And there's also this beautiful Plaza outside that you could when you're sitting at the bar see the lights of the town, which I think is important to see activity and and people watching.
Atif Qadir 11:08
When you design the exterior of the building. And that sitting here they just describe what was the thought process and tying that into the Morristown green weather, particularly landscaping where their finishes or lights, how did you do that design was
Megan Luce 11:22
the owners of the building and the surrounding area, were also deciding to renovate. And so there is a big open space on both sides of the building. And they are creating a large seating area with outdoor picnic benches and plantings and lighting. So they're really trying to revive part of the 1776 on the green is a whole area. So we wanted to make sure we were part of that. And so we wanted to make sure there was outdoor seating that you could see right in we have a great view Florida ceiling for the most poor part of Windows. And you can see in and be part of the green, which we really wanted an urban feel and revitalization of that particular corner and Morristown will be lovely.
Atif Qadir 12:16
If I remember correctly from American history, Morristown was one of the winter headquarters with George Washington during the revolution, right? That is correct. 1776. There it is. So when we turn our perspective or attention back towards the, the interior, so as you described in the beginning, there's this difference as you go from the entry to the foyer area, the bar area, the restaurant, and the top golf, could you talk about the size and the scale and how you wanted those spaces to be perceived by diners as they were coming through? Sure.
Megan Luce 12:51
We kept the ceilings very large, a tall in the entry spaces, except we created this zone that mimics the size of the bar in the ceiling. So we dropped this little peripheral design. And we're really excited it is a return sort of patchwork, elegantly done around the lights that are going to drop around the ceiling. And everything else is quite dark and approximately 2020 feet high. And so is the dining, it's quite, it's quite high ceilings to create a very public open space. But then as you go into the tasting room, we've dropped the ceiling to 12 feet, and we make a very dark moody room. And it's a very big transition into that space, which I think is really intimate, and unique. And I'm hoping that our wall covering looks like a window out to a very foggy forest, which can be very interesting.
Atif Qadir 13:51
And then from the materials perspective, you've described lots of really interesting materials. So we have oak floors, which is a classic American building material that those are laid out in a chevron style, super dynamic, really beautiful. I then felt which is from Central Asia originally has been used by humans for centuries. Using that as a wall covering, talk a bit more about the way that you chose the particular materials that you use and how you ended up making those final decisions.
Megan Luce 14:22
We wanted a lot of texture that was almost you didn't perceive the full texture until you got closer. And so we always talked about drawing people in right we don't want to static design that you sit and you just observe we want to actually engage you and draw you in and so far away the return might not seem like return and may just look like a covering or a texture but you get closer and closer we we use two different opening weaves of the return and you have to get close and you have to sort of investigate. And so I always I love design when it can become interactive with the end user that I never get to see at the end them engaging in it. But I hope that they have enjoyment and fun and a little bit of curiosity as they walk through my spaces, my spaces. That is why I always think of creating a world. Beyond that the David Burke's signature material is salt blocks. Okay, yeah, he has them in a couple of his other restaurants, not all of them, but a couple. And he also served food on some of them that lend themselves to that. And they're beautiful, because salt can also be backlit. And so besides being this beautiful texture people want to touch, it also becomes like a white wall, and a really beautiful trance, it Trans fuses the lighter disperses. And it's also a just another magical material that we get to layer on top of all the other ones we get to use. I
Atif Qadir 16:04
really liked how you described the treatment and the installation of the return, it's actually really similar in focus in terms of materiality to the way that a great architecture firm Aaro, the partner can yell, I will be joining us later on this season. And they have done very similar textures and treatments, to really interesting plant based materials, as well. So we're excited to talk about that talk with them later this season. You talked about lighting as well being a key component to the way that people perceive the design in terms of really bright spaces and really dark and moody spaces. So both of us have been to Santos World Resort and both of us have been denial coordination. Lighting is a huge part of both of those locations. Could you talk about a little bit more detail about the types of lighting fixtures that you that you purchase and how you want to have made those decisions?
Megan Luce 16:55
Well, for the bar itself, we have 100, beautiful, like charcoal color glass globes, 50 of them will be lit internally and the other 50 are going to refract the light, we have little little seated bubbles inside the glass as well. Because every time you do, there's just another layer of the light can hit it. So knowing the materials and how the light can work with your materials is really works for the project. Because these glass globes are clustered at the center and they look active even though they're just hanging there. But they're going in the active version, I've just portion of the restaurant where the bar is. And then we have much calmer lights as we go calmer, like the light actually has a feeling. But the lights are much more subdued in the other areas. And they're they're less clustered. And then we spread them out to make them you know much more of a dining experience as opposed to the bar.
Atif Qadir 18:00
And for any of our listeners that are doing home renovations right now I know layering of lights is a big tip, any freebies that you'd give to our listeners in that regard,
Megan Luce 18:09
layering, make sure all your lights look good together. Even if they go in separate parts of the house, it actually, subconsciously, I think you can tell when something is working, even if it's a different part of the house. So make sure they all work together.
Atif Qadir 18:27
There you go. There's you're an expert interior designer. So let's talk about the big picture I want to place this amazing restaurant, in the context of a trend that is challenging our industry all across the country is how do you make people feel comfortable in restaurant and bar spaces, in order for them to come back and start spending their money again, as things are, are starting to return to some degree of what it was like before. So this is actually going to be a common theme through the entire season two in many different types of projects, many parts of the country. So talk more specifically about where you were in the design process last February, March, April, what particularly happened and when things restarted.
Megan Luce 19:13
So I think we had signed on with the job, I believe, right after we all went into quarantine. So I hadn't worked on it inside the office. And so I've been working with my team from home the whole time on this project. And I had to meet the owners and everyone our clients virtually. And I think that you know it's harder to do that because you don't have you can't sit across the table with the fabrics and the materials. So our in house I say render but really our our virtual artists made these wonderful renderings to really help portray what we were going to deliver at the end of the project. jumps in renderings, and even they are getting so good at it, the walkthrough videos, so you can walk through the space. And I level you know, it's not even a bird's eye view, you feel the whole space as if you're walking through it. And I think that is a great asset for when we all have to be virtual right. And so that was wonderful, because we could get sign offs, from everyone on the team just having been all remote. So that was one great thing. The second thing was then how do we design to be impacted by COVID. And to make people feel safe and comfortable when they do get back out from being remote and isolated. So one thing we thought that was great is, like I said, it is surrounded by the green 776 on the green, and there's some great technology have, number one, they all have our floor to ceiling, windows up to nine feet can be open, we made them doors there, there's this solar innovations product that all of the doors can bifold open, and then it becomes the restaurant is, is almost fully open to the outdoor seating. And I think it it makes feel people feel very comfortable. Number one sitting outside number two being like almost outside because you're you've opened up the space now there's no inside outside. And there's also these air curtains, that is a technology right that you put above these, above the bifold doors, they keep out say like bugs and humidity, this air curtain pushes it back out. So the people inside still get the nice air conditioning. And you know, no bugs coming in and out of that restaurant. It's just great technology to feel comfortable inside and outside the restaurant.
Atif Qadir 21:57
So it keeps the cicadas out because we're in May right now. So it was just such a great technology as well. That's wonderful. So you've really done one of the things, I think that is going to be the crux of people feeling. I don't want to say the term but back to normal in a restaurant in a bar is this idea of airflow. So you've talked about natural air having the an increased amount or a large amount of operable walls and windows and doors? Are there other parts of airflow or circulation systems or things with a facade, that that helped to address that particular issue of air change in his face?
Megan Luce 22:40
I think yes, there is. And what we thought would be a nice perception and nice airflow is keeping the ceiling as high as we could, I think it gives it more room for the air to flow, I think people perceive they have more personal space when they have a higher ceiling also. And so some of this will be how people feel comfortable in the space as much as it is true airflow and comfort. And so we only dropped some of the ceilings in very particular areas, so that we could create a high 20 foot ceiling as much as we could.
Atif Qadir 23:19
And then one other thing that we've discussed is about the layout of this space in terms of the seating, given that the design did all happen, essentially, during quarantine, were there any changes to the norm, say this project compared to previous projects about seats per square foot or any other metric that you would normally use when you're laying out?
Megan Luce 23:41
What we did was we I think what was really good was we created zones like we talked about. And then we also we use a lot of loose furniture so they could scale up or scaled down. And they weren't as many fixed seats, I think we do have some that helped lay out the space in general. But we really tried to keep it open so that when people do get more comfortable, we can put more chairs and tables back in. And then when if we, depending on when we opened, we weren't sure if people would be comfortable where we are today, or in even what we will be comfortable with in a month. So we really wanted to keep some flexibility, especially in the seating so that we could always flex up and flex down. And I think maybe we bought more outdoor furniture based on that so that we could get more outdoor dining in the beginning. And we could always flex up or flex down as much as we felt, you know, the public was comfortable.
Atif Qadir 24:44
And I realized this is a little further afield from the design, but I had a curiosity. Were there any influences that COVID had on the menu itself in terms of perhaps like less shareable foods or more kind of individually plated items at anything in that regard that you know about?
Megan Luce 25:01
I don't know that is they haven't let me in on the menu, which is a, it's probably better there are the pros. So I do not know,
Atif Qadir 25:09
I guess all our listeners will have to go to 1776 and try for themselves then Right? Yes. And
Megan Luce 25:15
if you follow David Burke on Instagram, your mouth will water at least once a day on everything that he posts. So it's delicious.
Atif Qadir 25:23
Perfect. And then, in terms of hospitality, these major projects that we talked about early on all the way to a new restaurant in Morristown, design, and particularly hospitality design involves a number of emotions and feelings and experiences. We've talked about comfort and surprise and delight. How do you think about all of these, say, obtuse ideas and then actually translate them to physical things that you design and specify?
Megan Luce 25:54
That's a great question. I think that we try a lot of things. And we, I love working with a renderer as we design, because I think you have to, I always say go with your gut, right? It's not the most intellectual answer. But there is a part of design that is your gut and knowing what feels right, and what doesn't. And that gut feeling does take some years of experience to get there. But I think that you, you try different things, you see what feels comfortable, and it comes back to what Michael said, Would you feel comfortable in the space, would the end user feel like they want to sit there for a long time, and that's what you want, or maybe you want them up and running, but you can work with emotion, and how you want people to feel in that design. So we layer a lot of materials, so that it's used in the right context. And I think that's a big deal. Because things you would use in an office building and light temperatures you wouldn't use in a restaurant, of course. And I think if it's too bright or too certain way, your emotions will be off. And you'll you'll feel it in the design.
Atif Qadir 27:17
Yeah, I think it sounds like there are a few key variables and tell me if I if I picked up on that its color, its texture, its material and its pattern. Are those the four variables that you're using most often?
Megan Luce 27:37
Absolutely, absolutely. I think color is a big one we didn't talk about I've talked a lot about texture this time, but color is very impactful. And I think light plays a big, big role with color. And so I think those are the things that I always come back to is that, are they all working together? And are they are they working in the right context for this particular project.
Atif Qadir 28:03
And I think that what I particularly like from the renderings that you've shared about 1776, and I'm pretty sure those are available online as well is that there are certain similarities and the material choices in those four variables. But those similarities change as you go through the project. So in some cases, it's the colors and the textures that are similar across materials are using. In other cases, there are other variables that are similar. And I think that's my guess, is what's gonna make that space feel so dynamic in terms of people want him to come back again and again.
Megan Luce 28:38
That's exactly what I hope. So.
Atif Qadir 28:41
I think one other thing that I'm curious about is given that people have spent so much time at home over the past year, is there this feeling or this emotional idea about designing around an escape, like this idea of when you're designing a restaurant now in a bar for it to feel like you have gone somewhere that is so far away from here? Is that thing that you've been thinking about? I know one or two other designers I follow on Instagram had mentioned that?
Megan Luce 29:09
Yes, I see people posting on Instagram, oh, throwbacks to when they were on vacation, or? Yeah, and I think that's exactly what people are gonna look for. They've been at home for a full year, seeing the same people. And I think that's all that they're going to want is an escape. And that is exactly what I'm hoping for it in this restaurant. I'm hoping it's moody and exciting and draws you in. And I do think that's what people are gonna look for. Absolutely.
Atif Qadir 29:42
There's this other feeling. One of our guests from last season, Martin did oh, he's a developer in Washington, DC and he focuses on residential, both condominiums and personal home but also co living in kind of a reimagined way. And the emotions that he mentioned and particularly in this post COVID world as they're rethinking their CO living strategy is whimsy and wonder, because he wants to add those kind of light hearted emotions to the way that they approach their design, because that is an antidote to sort of the, the environment that we're in today, which may not be that whimsical. And so that's an interesting perspective that he had shared as well.
Megan Luce 30:28
Which is a word that Michael would always use. Oh, really? Yes, he would use the word whimsy and even from the LSE tea kettle, how there is a little bird that is on the end, where it whistles, it was very whimsical in what he would do. And he uses that word. And I keep that with me, I always, besides humanistic, whimsical is a great word for it.
Atif Qadir 30:52
I feel like people that take themselves too seriously, as designers, and as architects and developers, imagine that serious is somehow so much better than whimsical. But I think that if you are using that teakettle, every day, the ability to add just one example that that ability to see that and smile, probably has much more of an impact on someone than for it to be to meet any up to standard of what a serious design is supposed to be. III agree,
Megan Luce 31:19
I completely agree. I always wonder when you see headshots of people wearing all black, they're like, are they having fun at work? I hope they're most designers are because it should be it should be fun.
Atif Qadir 31:32
I think that's a really, really good point. And I think that ties into the most important question that I have for you, which is, what do you think it is that makes you stand out as an interior designer,
Megan Luce 31:44
I think that what makes me stand out is hopefully, that people, especially your clients, they feel heard at the end of the day, I've met people who have gone through maybe a couple of design firms, and they just never felt heard and what they want. And my job is to take what they want, and what they're saying to me, and translated into a design that technically can work, right. So sometimes what they want is not achievable, but I can show them a way we can make it achievable and technically accurate. And so we talked about a lot a lot about fun and whimsical, but it has to work also. And so there's a lot that goes into this restaurant where they needed certain criteria in the bar and in the rest in the kitchen to make it work functionally. So there's, it goes back to the inches, right? If the engineers are not working, and they're not making the money they need, then the design is a foul. And so I hope that I can be technical, whimsical and a good listener for all of my clients.
Atif Qadir 33:01
So I'm guessing people that are interested in working in Michael Graves should emphasize those things in their their applications or portfolios. That sounds like a good piece of advice.
Megan Luce 33:10
That's perfect. Exactly. Is the firm hiring right now. We're always looking for great people.
Atif Qadir 33:16
Excellent. And if someone wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?
Megan Luce 33:20
You can go on the website and there's a info and my name is there as well. You can contact me directly or info at Michael graves.com.
Atif Qadir 33:29
Excellent. And again, thank you so much for joining us today at the American building podcast.
Megan Luce 33:36
Thank you for having me. It's great to take a moment to remember why we do what we do.
Atif Qadir 33:41
Absolutely. And if you want to hear the behind the scenes stories about how iconic buildings in our country were designed and built subscribe to this podcast on Spotify, iTunes, Google or wherever it is that you listen, we all know real estate is a tough industry to make it. So how can professionals stand out and make a name for themselves in today's world? Hear from me, the team and Michael Graves and many of our spectacular guests like Meghan on what we did to make it where we are. Grab our exclusive guide for free seven tips on how to stand out in your field at American building podcast.com My name is Arthur father and this has been American building by Michael Graves. Thank you